Since the Lee Enfield is a 400fps weapon (and for non-WWII skirmishing I'll probably up it to 500fps when I get it) I will need a sidearm. Yanks have it good with their privately purchased personal sidearms, but Poles had nothing of that sort. Webley revolvers were for the officers, not privates. So... the only plausible way for a private to own a personal sidearm is to have a trophy one. Am I correct? If, along with the LE, I get a "captured" Luger or Mauser C96 I won't be pushing the envelope too much, right?
Kitwhore files: S&S Lee Enfield No. 4, AGM Sten Mk. II, Tanaka Kar 98k, WE Luger P08
Wishlist: AGM Stg44, possible LE No. 4 gas project
it is, basically, not plausible. A Trophy would not be used in the field.
So use what you like, just check it with any organisers that it is allowed in their rules, most allow any period pistol.
Some time ago I happened upon this pic:
Notice the pistol attached to the Lee Enfield's sling - it does look like a trophy, doesn't it?
Kitwhore files: S&S Lee Enfield No. 4, AGM Sten Mk. II, Tanaka Kar 98k, WE Luger P08
Wishlist: AGM Stg44, possible LE No. 4 gas project
Or he is keeping safe the sidearm of the German Officer behind him and will hand it in the Provost Company when he arrives at the PW cage.
Possibly. The way it is snapped onto the sling makes using it difficult if not impossible, so it is unlikely he would go into combat like this. You are probably right in that the sidearms belongs to the officer being escorted. What would happen with it though?
Was there a regulation forcing soldiers to give up the trophy weapons? Was it enforced?
Kitwhore files: S&S Lee Enfield No. 4, AGM Sten Mk. II, Tanaka Kar 98k, WE Luger P08
Wishlist: AGM Stg44, possible LE No. 4 gas project
Or just do the right thing and run the rifle at 350fps without a side arm. I do the same even at open days and have tons of fun...
most of us who want a pistol opt for the Tanaka Smith+Weston m10 m+p as its verry similar to the lend lease victory revolver,it's a thing of beauty but not cheep.
armoury
m1a1 Thompson,sten mk2,mp40,stg44,sterling,mk2 bren gun,lee Enfield no4 mk1,Mauser Kar98, Walther ppk,smith and Weston m10 and Mauser m712
Give me a big enough hammer and a place to stand and I could fix the world.
i'll kill a man in a fair fight or if i think he's going to start a fair fight or over a woman or.......
a problem shared is a problem halved ,but an advantage shared is no advantage at all
if a job's not worth doing then its certainly not worth doing well
Was there a regulation forcing soldiers to give up the trophy weapons? Was it enforced?
Not sure about regulations, beyond the general prohibition of owning such things, but anecdotal evidence (my grandfather, who brought back a luger!) was that unless you kept it well hidden, your CO would 'confiscate' it, and either hand it in, or, if it was a particularly nice example, keep it for himself.
Pretty much all trophy weapons were kept very well hidden, at the bottom of your packs, it's only in the 'heat' of the battle that they were captured in that they might be on your belt, and that's only if your pockets were full.
As an airsoft 'fudge', then something like the Tanaka M10 would be about the best bet. You can attach a lanyard loop, then use the lanyard around your neck, and hide the gun in your denison inside pocket.
Assuming you're wearing a Denny, it gets a bit more complicated if you're in BD's. Personally, i'd go the 350fps route for the rifle.
Possibly. The way it is snapped onto the sling makes using it difficult if not impossible
It's not actually on the sling, it's a bit of an optical illususion, it's on the officer's leather belt. if you look where his hand is, you can see his Y-straps, that the fella's also carrying, the leather belt is just hiding the enfield sling.
Effectively, the officer's gun belongs to the officer, and would be handed over with the prisoner.
There is a photo of general Anders visiting the Polish soldiers. So a fairly official occasion. One of the soldiers greeting the general has on his belt a Luger holster, presumably with the Luger still inside. Can't find it now, the guy who posted it left the site where it was posted in a huff and deleted his flickr account.
Kitwhore files: S&S Lee Enfield No. 4, AGM Sten Mk. II, Tanaka Kar 98k, WE Luger P08
Wishlist: AGM Stg44, possible LE No. 4 gas project
To be honest, it's airsoft, you can set your rig up as you please. If you *really* want a trophy pistol, go for it, I'm sure a few existed. However, the vast majority of soldiers would have just not bothered. They'd risk confiscation, and possibly being put on a charge, except in very rare and specific conditions.
Whilst I'm sure the Polish Army's circumstances were slightly different to the regular British Army, The fact it doesn't occur on more photos makes it unusual, to say the least.
It's rather a case of finding the least implausible option I honestly do know that carrying a sidearm would be a very rare exception.
Kitwhore files: S&S Lee Enfield No. 4, AGM Sten Mk. II, Tanaka Kar 98k, WE Luger P08
Wishlist: AGM Stg44, possible LE No. 4 gas project
It's rather a case of finding the least implausible option
I honestly do know that carrying a sidearm would be a very rare exception.
I think the least implausible would be a Webley (Tanaka M10 at the moment) or a Browning/1911, on a lanyard, tucked into the inside breast pocket in your denison smock. They were at least issued, and so you'd have no problems with the obtaining of ammunition, or questions from CO's about where it came from.
If you must have a captured pistol a P38 would be high on the list of possibles. By the time the Poles saw action it was a standard issue firearm for the Germans. Much less so the C96, not at all common.
The Browning is quite handy as a multi use pistol. Used by commonwealth and German forces.
aka Stigroadie
AFRA
better by design
"Truth is a shining goddess, always veiled, always distant, never wholly approachable, but worthy of all the devotion of which the human spirit is capable. "
Wasnt there some way in the 1940's you could bring home War trophy pistols?
I seem to rember there being an exemption to the 1997 Handgun ban for War trophys registred before 1946?
WW2 Weapons AGM Sten, AGM MP40
They certainly came home. They still get handed in. My local RFD gets a couple every year. Sadly they usually get chopped.
aka Stigroadie
AFRA
better by design
"Truth is a shining goddess, always veiled, always distant, never wholly approachable, but worthy of all the devotion of which the human spirit is capable. "
that is a real shame it has to be said, i know of people whos grandfathers supposedly had them in secondary school. lugers+ one "Revolver" i assume a webely. the outcome of those conversations was usually, "keep it quiet otherwise a bored police firearms unit maybe giving you a vist if you tell the wrong person" i rember reading of a few cases of that also one where people were prosecuted for their grandfaters pistol, and an episode of peep show im guessing that if you were to sneak it back in and you applied for a firearms certificate you may have been ok?
WW2 Weapons AGM Sten, AGM MP40
im guessing that if you were to sneak it back in and you applied for a firearms certificate you may have been ok?
I know that there was a major change to the firearms law in the late 60's, and my grandfather's Luger was handed in during an amnesty at that time, so I never saw it, but it was a P08, as i remember showing him my action men as a kid in the 70's, and he picked up the toy pistol and told me about it.
Prior to that, there was a bit of a 'blind eye' turned to war trophies, as long as you weren't using them to do over the local bookies. I know for a fact that my grandfather took his into the pub to show it people on at least one occasion, and several of the locals were coppers.
I found an interesting bit of info. The source:
http://pochefalaise.forumpro.fr/t917-ar ... zes-szgiel (you can run it through google translate)
Apparently during the Falaise battle the Americans were very reluctant to take the German prisoners off the Polish hands. The Poles had to "buy" this service with trophy weapons. 1 parabellum pistol for 100 prisoners, 1 Schmeisser for 200.
I also found pics of Poles and generally paras firing in combat Schmeissers, Spandaus and so on. Seems like in actual fight the troops would use whatever was on hand. That makes me feel a bit better about the Luger
Kitwhore files: S&S Lee Enfield No. 4, AGM Sten Mk. II, Tanaka Kar 98k, WE Luger P08
Wishlist: AGM Stg44, possible LE No. 4 gas project
I found an interesting bit of info. The source:
I also found pics of Poles and generally paras firing in combat Schmeissers, Spandaus and so on. Seems like in actual fight the troops would use whatever was on hand. That makes me feel a bit better about the Luger
Think about it this way: You are on real combat with your issued No.4 and somewhere there is dropped MP or something. Battle is hard, long etc.
Will you use enything to survive.
Or only issued weapon.