Bayonet frog and Holster

Your choice to be honest. Don't fall into the trap of getting anal over kit and spending all of your money on it, then complaining that you can't afford to play! Judging by your other post on the welcome thread, you're not obsessed with 100% stitch perfect kit, so, I'd say, you don't really need a bayonet frog (or bayonet for that matter!). Most airsoft sites won't allow you to carry an edged weapon anyway. The holster I can see a practical use for, depending on what type of pistol you want to put in it! Don't worry about "portraying" an officer to be able to carry a pistol either.

I have a No.4 bayonet in a frog on my belt kit as it's one of those stereotypical items that is always seen. I feel it helps add an extra level of 'genuineness' to kit to have a few realistic accessories that don't cost much at all. I remove my bayonet and only have the scabbard in the frog when skirmishing. They frogs only cost a couple of quid, and a No.4 bayonet' will cost you £5 from someone who isn't trying to rip you off. So, it's a "pocket money" extra, really!

PS. Though perfectly fine to use in any game at acceptable kit, in a "just so you know" sort-of-way; the entrenching tool helve with the bayonet lug is a bit of a post-war thing. The first batches were made around 1944 (as quite a few of them are dated), but never got issued in time to ever see service oversees during the war years (some TA units, etc.. in Britain may have got issued them, though).

Try Soldier of Fortune for the holster.

They're quite expensive these days and are getting rarer.

If you have a denison you might find that you can fit your pistol in an internal pocket.

I have a No.4 bayonet in a frog on my belt kit as it's one of those stereotypical items that is always seen. I feel it helps add an extra level of 'genuineness' to kit to have a few realistic accessories that don't cost much at all. I remove my bayonet and only have the scabbard in the frog when skirmishing. They frogs only cost a couple of quid, and a No.4 bayonet' will cost you £5 from someone who isn't trying to rip you off. So, it's a "pocket money" extra, really!

PS. Though perfectly fine to use in any game at acceptable kit, in a "just so you know" sort-of-way; the entrenching tool helve with the bayonet lug is a bit of a post-war thing. The first batches were made around 1944 (as quite a few of them are dated), but never got issued in time to ever see service oversees during the war years (some TA units, etc.. in Britain may have got issued them, though).

really? i was told ( on good reenactor/stitch counter authority) that the e-tool helf with the pig sticker adapters we made not long after the first no4's were sent out , circa 1941-42...... maybe a quest for knowledge is in order.... lol

Well you don't see too many in WWII period photos.

ah yes.... the " its not in a book so it couldnt possibley be true" clause..... i have never seen a picture of prince philips cock... but i am sure he has one ..

Nige

You have a No. 4, so the late Intrenching Tool is ok. Basicly, their issue was fairly soonish afterwards.
So I would not worry about it, beancounters need not have their pills.

: )

Simon

_________________
Simon Tierney
Commanding Officer, The Far Setting Sun
Far East Living History Group
Portraying Column 44 (Essex), 3rd (CHINDIT) Indian Inf. Div.

TA DA!!!!! my no4 is dated 1941...... the defence rests its case your honour...... cheers simon. lol

Just done some digging in one of my favorite British Military books 'The World War 2 Tommy' by Richard Ingram ( who works at Sabre Sales) and in the 'Infantry Section' and on the sketch it shows all the soldiers carrying the lug with bayonet 'to be attached to entrenching tool to prod for mines'. According to this they used the bayonet to prod for mines and was standard issue as of 1941 (after Dunkirk)

Hmm, that's odd, as in my copy of "The World War II Tommy: British Army Uniforms European Theatre 1939-45 In Colour Photographs”, by Martin Brayley & Richard Ingram, it says otherwise. It's on the page where they've got tents up and one man is squatting with his back to the photographer (if I remember correctly?) and it says in the text that "it's a bit farby" in a more complete manner. i'll have to dig out my copy of the book to check...

You dont see many but you do see some in NW Europe photos. You will have to look hard though.
Strange but most pictures are taken from the front of soldiers. Not seen any on D-day yet but still a good few volumes to get through.

The first batches were made around 1944 (as quite a few of them are dated), but never got issued in time to ever see service oversees during the war years (some TA units, etc.. in Britain may have got issued them, though).

Just an up-date on the whole entrenching tool helve with bayonet fixture.

LoC B 5409 re-introduced the old Patt. ’08 Tool, specifically its Mark II form, with an amended nomenclature of “Patt. ‘37” – even though it was now 1941 and it had not existed in 1937. The Helves, left in natural wood on the Patt. ’08 original, were sometimes painted khaki-green. Some had a drilled hole for a wrist cord. This was for the Helve’s secondary and un-designated role – as a truncheon, carried by those on guard duties, as a lighter form of the norm, which was a pickaxe handle. A.C.I. 976/1944 authorised a modification to the Helve, which was now to have a metal replica of the No. 4 Rifle barrel on its narrow end. This Adaptor, coded J1/JA 6023, allowed the No. 4 Bayonet to be attached, so that it could be used to prod the ground for land-mines. The Stores Code was accordingly changed and a new nomenclature of “Mark II” assigned.

So yeah, it is a 1944 onwards (late war) thing.
Call me Sceptic McSceptical, but I never believe a word most reenactors say as justification for any piece of kit that gets queried. Some reenactors will say/blag anything just to make what kit they've got 'acceptable', rather than being "wrong".

I see many less anal re-enactors with the post war extra strapped I-Tool covers.

I admit I use one of those for airsofting, but only because I've lost far too many nice helves in the woods! I use a proper wartime one for public stuff...

I'm always a wee bit wary about what the exact field loadout would be. On parade etc you would of course be expected to have all your correct kit etc or get put on a fizzer! In the field I'd assume kit may have been chuked away or been nicked by your 'mates'. Notwithstanding that you would be financially liable for your kit on return - hence for what i've heard/read from a few old sweats the nicking that sometimes went on. My loadout is not correct (RAMC Major) I'm in denims, but argue that I've just got off the beach at Dunkirk with what ever i could get! As for the holster i'd go for sabre. Dickie (the mine of information) I'm sure will sort you out

As previously said by those much more knowledgable than i - dont worry about the kit too much - spend the spondoolies on coming to a game. incidentally, very interested to hear that EAG Dorking are up for WW2 - us down at Worthing would surely be able to team up in some way.

Cheers

Simon

I see many less anal re-enactors with the post war extra strapped I-Tool covers.

I admit I use one of those for airsofting, but only because I've lost far too many nice helves in the woods! I use a proper wartime one for public stuff...

Me too!

BTW: For all those who are "oop norf", the army surplus stall in Doncster Market sell the lugged helves for £0.50p each!!! I've striped and re-blacked the metal-work and oiled the wood on three of these now, and they come out great! They also sell war dated 'frog leg' style wire cutters, with original jute lanyards, for £4 each...

BTW: For all those who are "oop norf", the army surplus stall in Doncster Market sell the lugged helves for £0.50p each!!! I've striped and re-blacked the metal-work and oiled the wood on three of these now, and they come out great! They also sell war dated 'frog leg' style wire cutters, with original jute lanyards, for £4 each...

Is it in the indoor or outdoor market? Might make a trip up there for those prices.

I'm practically local but won't have time to get over to Doncaster for a couple of weeks

BTW: For all those who are "oop norf", the army surplus stall in Doncster Market sell the lugged helves for £0.50p each!!! I've striped and re-blacked the metal-work and oiled the wood on three of these now, and they come out great! They also sell war dated 'frog leg' style wire cutters, with original jute lanyards, for £4 each...

Is it in the indoor or outdoor market? Might make a trip up there for those prices.[/quo
just finished 12 days work, one night and two full days in hospital, and had a bunch of cardiac tests today...... all in bleedin doncaster!!!
back in sheffield for work monday...
now its an 80 mile round trip to check out the market.

For all those asking, it's in the outdoor part. I have said about these bargains before...
These purchases have been within the last year, but I can't guarantee stock availability (and I have already picked out the best of everything for myself )

They also sell 58patt shovels for £2/£2.50, which I re-handled to make repro' infantry shovels