Since Gadge's PC is down at home I've dragged up the last version of his kit guide that I was emailed...
Gadge (or for that matter anyone else), please feel free to update it on this thread as needed... Basically work on it until we're happy!
Here's draft one of the brit kit section, obviosuly ive made asumptions about what you guys want to be acceptable, happy to tailor it to whatever you think is ok. Finsihed piece will have illustraions and links and prices for everything.
I'm currently proofing for typo and grammar, some will slip through, please flag up.
WWII Budget Battle Dress
Getting a serviceable set of combats to ‘pass off’ a WWII look (at skirmishing ranges anyway) is contrary to popular belief neither difficult nor expensive to do. For the cost of what a couple of molle pouches cost or a Gucci red dot scope you could get yourself a full forties loadout!
So lets look at a basic loadout for German, British and American infantry and also a few optional extras to perhaps personalise you kit.
What were really looking for here at this game is a set of combats that look right from twenty feet away, not top notch historical replicas! Ideally we want jacket, trousers, headwear and some form of webbing or belt kit to give you a general impression of your chosen army.
UK & commonwealth forces
Battledress
British troops almost universally wore a short cut jacket and trousers combination called ‘battledress’. This came in light brown/khaki wool or a green/grey denim material.A good reproduction set of 1940s battledress could cost over £100, fortunately the design wasn’t changed (much) until the mid 50s and a set of 1949 (national service era) pattern battledress is much cheaper. (differences are incredibly superficial, mainly to do with the type of buttons and cut of the collar, stuff only an expert will notice!)
If you want to do this look on a budget then a set of khaki brown or grey green overall would be acceptable if worn with webbing to disguise the fact they are ‘onepiece’ and not a separate jacket and trousers.
Sources:
37 or 40 pattern wartime Battledress - replicaters
Denims £47 a set. Wool £105
http://www.replicaters.com49 pattern
Trousers for £25
http://www.essexsurplus.com
http://www.sentimentaljourney.comOveralls (yith to add)
Overcoat, its going to be bloody cold in winter. In the 1940s a lot of troops fought in their greatcoat, any khaki brown greatcoat is ok… once again sabre £15! You may be able to find it cheaper at your local surplus stall
£30 from
http://www.essexsurplus.comWebbing
Next most important thing for the British look is 1937 pattern webbing, here’s where you are in luck… Sabre Sales will sell you the belt, ammo pouches, shoulder straps and a bayonet sheath for a mere £10 look no further….http://www.milweb.net/go/sabre/sabre3.htm
This is post war but the only differences are that the fittings are black rather than wartime brass and the ammo pouch fastenings are actually useful rather than awkward. For purists who want war dated webbing ask sabre, it will cost you probably about £20 for a set.
Headwear
The classic tommy helmet would look great and can be picked up in a an un-reconditioned state for as little as £15 (solider of fortune: http://www.1944airbourne.com ), a mint one might cost you £50 but I wouldn’t bother… buy and old one and spray it olive green!Alternatively go for a commando look with a knitted wool hat, headover or green beret (buy a huge beret for that wartime look, Russian surplus ones are perfect and only cost a fiver on ebay or http://www.rusmilitary.com or http://www.thecombatstore.com )
Footwear
WWII tommies wore ankle boots and gaiters, however war dated boots are expensive and uncomfortable (and impractical for airsoft), standard high leg army boots will be fine for this event, alternatively you could get ankle high DMS boots and buy a set of webbing gaiters for about £3 (once again sabre sales is the place to go… if they don thave them in your size try ebay or springfields http://www.springfields.co.uk but expect to pay about £15). Some units wore wool puttees instead of gaiters (sas and commandoes to name two) so you can use modern army puttees which cost about £4, you could even wrap these around the top of high leg boots to disguise their nature.So at the cheapest (and assuming you already have boots) you can do this look for
Overall £10
Webbing £10
Wool hat £3£23 ..bargain!
Options:
Para/Airlanding
For a para look you might want to add a camo smock called a ‘denison smock’, this was a large shapeless camouflaged oversmock. Wartime Denison smocks cost hundreds of pounds but there are thankfully cheaper options.A good reproduction from Replicaters will set you back about £60. As a cheaper alternative you could wear a Belgian army para smock which had a very similar pattern, these occasionally come up on ebay. A present day dpm smock is not really acceptable as it looks far too modern. All airborne UK troops wore the red (maroon) beret whether they were parachute or glider troops, again you want a large sized beret (modern ones are too small) and a Russian one (minus insignia is ideal)
Tank crew:
British tank crew wore black battledress, again you could replicate this with black overalls which are easily available form workwear stores.. webbing should be a pistol holster (tank crew drop leg style) and a belt, a large black beret (Russian again) completes the loadout.A black tank suit is really for early war but it might make an interesting look for one or two players, late war tankies wore all in one tan coloured padded overalls with a hood.
Mountain troops:
As normal infantry battledress but with a beige anorak type windproof smock and a ski cap.Scottish units:
Although officially withdrawn, some Scottish soldiers still fought in kilts, if you’re mad enough, own one and want to play a Scots officer then this is acceptable with a battledress jacket!
Can we establish general principles? Proposal:
Forces designated by colour
Black/Grey/Blue/Flectarn - Axis
Tan/Green/Olive - US
Brown - Brit
No modern webbing/vests.
Canvas satchels & haversacks are good.
Headgear:
Plastic tommy & german helmets are good (what about the modern US helmets, don't know what they are called!)
Plain coloured caps, splinter caps, berets, wool hat all good.
Modern UK helmets are PASGT helmets... they look kind of like german helmets... but lets not go there please...
Leather satchels and holsters should also be allowed... if they look right... esp for germans.
Brit also had a bit of dull green... but not like the US and it was warm weather stuff anyway... so yeah keep green to being US only.
No DPM, US woodland or dessie allowed.
My thought
No nylon/gortex clothes or webbing , leather, canvas ,rubber all ok .
Cheapskates can use 37 or 58 on either side , or just make do with their pockets .
I think what we need are two things...
1) a set of rules
2) guidance on how to do a good impression...
Can we establish general principles? Proposal:
Forces designated by colour
Black/Grey/Blue/Flectarn - Axis
Tan/Green/Olive - US
Brown - Brit
No modern webbing/vests.
Canvas satchels & haversacks are good.Headgear:
Plastic tommy & german helmets are good (what about the modern US helmets, don't know what they are called!)
Plain coloured caps, splinter caps, berets, wool hat all good.
This works for me .
HAHA ! finally got my Iron Cross after much hard graft on Ebay
CW might out rank me but I'm deffo going for out badging !
Real or repro?
probably repro !
HAHA ! finally got my Iron Cross after much hard graft on Ebay
CW might out rank me but I'm deffo going for out badging !
Pah, mere baubles.
(although secretly plans to buy some trinkets on the trip to Malvern next week!)
You ought to get a Blue Max, you could carry that off at your age Dave
*CW goes off to find out what the hell a Blue Max is, fearing he isn't going to like it*
And finds out it's a WW1 award - grrrrr
*and wonders if it is a good idea after all*
Right thats it... I'm getting a VC to pin on my kit.
ffs guys... ARGH!
And finds out it's a WW1 award - grrrrr
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*and wonders if it is a good idea after all*
Sorry mate !
I did wonder about getting the WWI clasp for the iron cross myself but worked out I would have only been 12 in 1918 if I was 38 in 1944 so gave up on that one .
I'd personally baulk at getting any decorations that were currently in use MOH / VC as I think it's actually illegal to wear an honour to which you are not entitled, but reckon older campaign medals would be ok .
The MOH is illegal to reproduce, so unless I did over a vet I don't think there'd be much chance of me getting one.
Sorry mate !
I did wonder about getting the WWI clasp for the iron cross myself but worked out I would have only been 12 in 1918 if I was 38 in 1944 so gave up on that one...quote]
LOL, I would have been 23 so I'll let you off this time! Maybe I'll fnd a repro at Malvern, you never know!On a technical point - the Germans loved their awards and wore them on their tunics/necks in battle but I don't recall US or Brits doing so, not even ribbons, just ribbons on dress uniform. Am I right?
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Yep, the Yanks even stopped wearing stripes after a while as they found Kraut snipers were picking off the commanders.
That's also part of the reason why comm and non-comm officers had stripes on the backs of their helmets, instead of markings on the front. Running towards the enemy with a big badge on your head saying 'I tell people what to do' is not a good idea.
No, never seen decorations on combat uniforms. The Yanks were much more relaxed about how they looked as can be seen on this original M42 jacket from the Trigger Time website:
Yup... its a problem that started way back in WW1... They actually started to run out of officers in the trenches because of snipers.
However between the wars the problem was forgotten again as the army liked to underestimate the power of a sniper.