Now, I'm not one to be too bothered about 500fps rifles, but with reports bandying about on a relatively public forum about bb's reaching 200m across the valley and a BB embedding deep into Rhys's cheek it does raise the question of what the hell those things were kicking out!
Some of the BBs coming at me past the tree I was hiding behind were whistling past from a good 40 metres away.
So, my question is who does the liability lie with for these guns? Us or the site owner? My take is that the site owner is responsible for insurance and therefore for checking compliance with that insurance which usually includes fps limits.
Anyone else bothered?
S
Nope!
But more fully:
The K98 injuries were close engagement as were the Thompson ones, airsoft isn't injury-free. My K98 wasn't hitting anything running on propane, chaps exaggerate range. Steve D opened fire on the Katysha when we started over the other side of the valley and swore his MP40 rounds were just dropping short!
FFS.
Liability rests with IED - they have a relaxed attitude and appear to have a 'give as good as you get' attitude, no idea if their insurance company know!
Thing is with gas guns is that we can't faff about - either banning their use when it gets warn (meh, they are crap when it's cold) or insisting they use another gas or fit restrictors there and then or chronoing everything. The plea is for folk to be sensible, which they were. Over excitement or panic or even thoughtlessness may lead to a slip, but this isn't a game of chess. The only vocal complainant was Neill - I was alongside the engagement and I can confirm that Rhys was neither too close nor emptied half a mag at his head. All he could see was Neill's head above a mound and he shot a burst at him. No doubt the two shots that hit his ear stung like hell but it wasn't bad play.
Slightly more concerned about organiser's inadequate eyewear though!
I'll list my points.
1: 200 metres, my arse. A full power Air rifle (12 ft/lb) would probably just about manage a hit on the side of house at that range. To get the same level of power as that, a K98 would have to put a 0.2 BB out at about 1200 FPS (no joke!)
2: Temp was somewhere between 25 and 27 on Sunday. On Propane, at that temp, you're talking about 550 to 575 FPS on an unrestricted, unmodified (i.e. no upgraded hammer spring) K98.
3: Engagement ranges were far shorter than they should have been. Rhy's face - i'd put money on that shot coming from less than 10 metres.
We need to reiterate that minimum engagement ranges for sniper rifles need to be stuck to.
When we were a Kingdom it was run by a King
When we were an Empire it was run by an Empress
Now we're a country we're run by a..........
They're the only ones that fit me with inserts in as my head is quite narrow hence the slight gap. What brand are yours?
Rhys's shot was from Seidler afaik.
S
Rhys was hit by Seidler, first time outing and he made an error of judgement.
We do need to reiterate basic airsoft rules, we do need a brief aide-mémoire to read from. Gay and boring but all sites do it and do it for a reason - it's hard to substantiate a claim if rules have been read out. OK, punters don't listen but that isn't the point.
Either that or we hand out an A5 sheet of bullet points, duplicate on booking threads.
Definitely worth demonstrating what 20m really is. I know what 25m is 'cos I measured it out when I was setting the hop on Sat morning but I couldn't have guessed!
Not too bothered about FPS myself and the responsibility for risk assessement , liability, and conformance to their own set FPS limits is what they were paid for .
Might be worth getting hold of a chrono though , not to chastise just to demonstrate , although doing that in front of site organisers might be a problem ,
Long live K98s, I'll be buying one soon , along witha 600fps SLR 
Sighs - what goes on it Yith's head?
Still, all sorted now. Had PM's from Rhys & Che irritated by Yith, also phone call from Keith. Even a PM from Gadge had an apologetic tone!
Yith is a complete tool. Took all of my self control not to post "STFU- you weren't even there" on that thread.
Chrono wise, i've got a few of 'em knocking around here that I can bring if required.
When we were a Kingdom it was run by a King
When we were an Empire it was run by an Empress
Now we're a country we're run by a..........
I deleted one of my posts 30 seconds after posting calling Yith a shit-stirrer - then toned it down to an 'irritated' level and added some rationality!
Jumped in with both feet just to take the piss now I found the thread .
How many injuries on gadge's birthday piss up as well .....toooooooooool
Exactly, the permanent damage done to livers on Saturday night is far more serious than the odd cut or bruise sustained during gameplay! 
While I don't like the idea of chronoing per se (we run games for grown-ups) I suppose since we do have one available then we could offer self-checking. Quite apart from keeping 'safe' limits chaps like to know what their guns are doing, so it would be a 'service' not a checking system. Also, should there be a complaint it can be checked out without argument.
While I don't like the idea of chronoing per se (we run games for grown-ups) I suppose since we do have one available then we could offer self-checking. Quite apart from keeping 'safe' limits chaps like to know what their guns are doing, so it would be a 'service' not a checking system. Also, should there be a complaint it can be checked out without argument.
Sounds good to me !
So Blade got hit by a BB that embedded into his forehead and shattered into peices off the bone...........
Tell you what, I wouldn't want one of them put through a ballistics gel test for muzzle velocity.
Don't start! It was engagement distances that was the problem, not gun power as such. I'm getting a bit tired of the hysteria over fabled awesome power of the K98. It's rubbish - firing a tenth of a mile! Guy's pistol shot to Rhys's arse caused a bleeding wound. Why? Bare skin and a close engagement.
If we are not careful the Yith's of this world plus glory stories will give us an ill-deserved reputation. IED may play tough games but at least they have the sense not to blab about it on forums...