PD's ideas

Did that come out of some other discussion? I might be an idea to run a crossover airsoft/reenactment event, but I've no idea what the take-up from each side would be.

S

yes I pulled it out of the ACM MP44 thread, which PD has dragged of course in several directions at once.
The MP44 history bit was interesting as well, they just can't contain themselves !

I've discussed this with PD last year and this - PD wants to do a crossover event. Pretty much as reenactor's as conventional private battle/living history but with airsoft guns. I didn't think it was a goer last year and in any case neither PD nor we had any time to devote to it.

This year I'm more positive that it is achievable - it's pretty much what we had in mind for the background to the E&E game (and to a lesser degree Aerial. Given that, how about a collaborative for out September game? We don't have a site for E&E but we can do a scaled down full-on realism event. 20 players from the airsoft world and 20 from reenactment should be doable.

Hmmm, could be a goer and would certainly be more attractive to more people than the E&E.

S

Heh, just had a telecon with Guy and he doesn't want to collaborate with PD so that knocks it on the head!

Still, I'll explore possibilities with PD even if it means I sort something with non-CiA status!

I'd be happy to collaborate with you on that if time allowed.

What are Guy's concerns?

His concerns? Much as mine - not wanting a Yith/Gadge type confrontation/difference of opinion, not wanting to lose control, anality of some reenactors pissing off airsofters, losing sight of CiA principles.

But my counters to the concerns are that A) nothing ventured, nothing gained B) our principles haven't changed but there is no point putting on events for the benefit of others (that's what Josh does) but every point in organising events for our personal benefit C) Control/anality is laid out in ground rules when exploring collaboration.

PD is a 'hardened' reenactor with all the anality (and extensive knowledge) it brings. However, he is also enthusiastic, pragmatic and a realist. That along with extensive contacts makes him potentially worth having as an collaborator - or at the very least exploring common ground and seeing where it goes...

Didn't say no, just softly, softly . Collaboration with Josh and Yith was fraught with difficulty , PD is just the same . If we step up the anti in September lets do it on our terms not having ot take theirs on board.

I can't help but feel this is "grass is greener on the other side" . I'd like to be proved wrong on this BTW .

Also feel if you want to dash off and do other events independantly thats ok too , but would prefer if we moved as a group .

Lets discuss talk etc ?

I didn't say I was dashing off - and yes, it could go horribly wrong. Only one way to find out...

PD has venues already sorted so that's one thing out of the way. Secondly, he will go ahead and do this - with or without us. I'd rather be in than out esp as CiA crawls into a third/forth year and likely (for various reasons) not going to be able/arsed to keep up the momentum.

BTW - pleased with the 'statement' Guy - lets see watch comes up in the flack that follows...

I feel the frustration too you know

Glocke's in a few weeks, lets try to get an hour to have a recap and think about where it's going . The idea with PD is worth exploring for sure , I just have reservations that's all .

Grinding into the fourth year ...yep know what you mean .

Good post on the public PD thread Guy.

With Josh cornering the cockhead market and PBI catering for the pedants it's a good time to take our toys and go play somewhere else.

I clearly pissed a good section of Yanks off with my posts about attitude to games (namely Dog Company) as we haven't seem them booking onto, or showing an interest in, our games (ironically though, they booked on to the Spiers/Taffy SISK). No loss as far as I'm concerned because they played like idiots and spoilt it for others.

The fact that Doughboys has risen from the flames as a more kit-specific group is a good indicator that people are starting to look in that direction naturally.

I like your closing sentence. How about "Tougher battles for tougher people?"

Good I'm glad we are in accord again ! I agree with your market segmentation analysis

I've held back from saying it before because of that exact reason , loosing people in a small pool of players, although I think we are all at the same point now - we want better or frankly fuck it off ( well that's my take anyway)

Rounds, guns, badges it's all shite , it's whats in your head that counts. Ironically Josh's larping history should make for better events if he could only see it beyond the ££££signs .

"Live the part not just play the game" ........new CiA strapline perhaps !

LOL, you pinch all my words from this morning's convo and backtrack on worries about losing players
We have never NOT been in accord!

Now then, Gadge's game next weekend will be the decider for me. I will be looking very closely at player's attitude. It should be good - invitation only, players briefed what to wear and put into squad structures, role playing partisans (albeit with character cards). I know I won't like the short game thing as it destroys any suspense of disbelief for me but heh, as an experiment I'll go along with it.

If it doesn't end the day how it started then it will just prove to me that all airsofters want to do is shoot the enemy. If it hangs together then there is something worth continuing for and building on.

Thought you weren't coming to the PBI game Chommers? I'll be watching closely too, I'm in the partisans with Pete Dunn leading so if there was ever a place for it to work it would be there (strong leadership, role playing etc)

I got persuaded! There are quite a few of 'our' crowd so I'm happy about that, it's just around the corner from me and all the site fee is going to charity - well, those are my justifications! I'm leading one of the three squads under Yith's command and I got to choose the squad first - like a school football team (don't want Neill's son etc etc )

Heh! You're paying?! They told me it was gratis...although I may bung the charity a tenner. Guess I'll be Heide's No1, but happy to play rather than lead.

Just to bring it back to the topic...

PD, has a bit of plan sitting at the back of his head, and if it is what i think it is, then its not a bad one. WW2 re-enactment battles are pretty choreographed affairs (in general). Get to position A, lay down a load of blank, bugger off to position B. It lacks the chaos that you get with Airsoft - where real projectiles are flying around, where you have to be hit to be out. PD knows damn well that the outcome of a Private Battle is usually decided before it even starts - it lacks the elements of luck (or bad luck!) that you get in combat.

But it does leave me thinking "what do we get out of it?". Access to new sites? possibility of playing with more vehicles? I'm sure there are other things, but my brain is too mangled to think about it at the mo...

Personally, i'm not against some type of joint project as an experiment. Hand picked Airsofters - the ones we know and trust, and likewise from PD's contingent, would be my suggestion. What I wouldn't like to be stuck in the middle of is an "open to all" type event. I'm a scientist. I like to minimise variables when i'm carrying out an experiment - and that's how I think this should be treated.

Well, PD's idea is basically just to substitute blank firers for airsoft guns. What it loses with no bang it gains by actually hitting someone - so there is no dispute (apparently a problem) and you don't get the typical reenactor's 'stand in the middle of a field and fire' or the equally lame 'use a twig as cover' (heh, airsofters do that too!). And thinking long term the expected further restriction on blank firers then airsoft guns may be the only way forward. Incidentally, this is private battles we are talking about not ultra choreographed public battles. And most definitely nothing to do with the reenactors who stand behind a rope and do show-and-tell to MOP.

So yes, more realistic battles which will take reenacting/living history a bit further.

What do we get out of it? Hopefully LH reenactors are more 'in the zone'. They don't mind digging a foxhole for a couple of hours, or getting hungry or dirty, or following orders. This is more like what we are looking to get from our players. A spin off may very well be new sites or vehicles but this is of less important to me - more a bonus than anything. It also widens the pool of players - the number of active, participating players is still woefully small even after all this time.

Furthermore it makes CiA as a brand more prominent - leading the way as we always have done. Looking to innovate and foster new ideas, being distinctive and forward thinking. Tackling something new will keep us fresh and interested (well, me anyway ).

Let the blatters/SISK crowd move to Josh and we will keep those that are actually interested in the period!

Anyhoo, I was in convo with Guy yesterday and I share all the same concerns - this could be another Josh but a lot of concerns are borne out of my ignorance over what the others do in private battles, what reenactors are really like in the field. I'm sure there are twats out there but I have been to loads of shows and events and I've not met one yet - generally all just like airsofters, some pillocks but mostly blokes enjoying a hobby! (I'm excluding forum users from this which is a different kettle of fish!) So, I need to be educated in order to form a correct judgement about private battles (rather than assumption) so I'll see if there is a private battle going on soon that I/we can get to in an observation capacity. I have also asked for a meeting with Paul for exploratory talks - see exactly what he has in mind and where aspirations coincide with ours and whether a joint event will be of mutual benefit. PD lives in Barnsley which is nicely between me and Guy for meeting up but can be anywhere to suit Jay/Stephen.

Hi - re your comments in CiA forum.

We have had a conflab and would like to explore possibilities of some sort of collaborative effort. We rather not discuss through the open forum as it only leads to punters getting aeriated, barking up wrong trees, making assumptions and otherwise making unhelpful comments!

So, how about a meeting sometime. We would be happy to meet halfway or so and since Guy is in Holmfirth and I'm in Derby then Barnsley seems to be as good a place as any!

cheers
David

Bloody right we will! My base thoughts were - AFRA underwrites it and CiA runs it with our practical assistance in a support capacity - I always acknowledge greater skill/knowledge and CiA have that in this instance - We could take away the anxiety of collecting in enough pennies to make it work - make it attractive by being cheap and use our influence in certain quarters to obtain things like land, location, props etc......

I noticed the CiA forum gets a little shell pocked from time to time - which is why I left the "PD's ideas for a game" alone............. I will not get into any scrapes on CiA - bad for the equilibrium.

I like the airsoft attitude - and I can see that people like yourself are moving it forwards - it's better than trad re-enactment for sure but runs the risk of being similarly polluted don't you think?

You summed it up when you said you did it for yourelves - and if others wanted to join in, as long as it was by your rules there was no problem - I have the same outlook.

So - We must arrange a meeting - I'm out at work all week - Hav a few busy weekends but give me some dates and I'll play meinhost!

Cheers Dave

Paul

Seems fair enough to me!