AFRA affiliation - for discussion at Sunday meeting

I'm not sure asking for questions or concerns is a great idea - it will only complicate matters. It's democratic but meh, what would it change?
I'm of the opinion that presentation of a done deal is the way forward, the players can take it or leave it!

Yup, take it or leave it would be my view.

Going back to costs for a second, we really ought to do a membership card for the WW2 Airsoft Battle Reenactment Society (catchy, eh?) . Charge for it at cost. It gives the punters something tangible.

This card would be in addition to the AFRA one? Or just a card for any one else to have?

Yep agree with take it or leave it .

Still reckon suggest either at cost or with a fiver added for "forum running"
Our pricing needs to be transparent as it is with most of the games to maintain trust in our "not ripping anyone off" stance.
The not for profit is key IMHO in maintaining distacne between us and everyone else asking for money .

OK, overruled.

I guess the money for forum running is one that Dave should decide on...

I think a CiA branded WW2 ABRS (why not just get rid of the 'Battle' and call it ARS? ) card is a good idea in addition. It adds a sense of belonging.

S

I think a CiA branded WW2 ABRS (why not just get rid of the 'Battle' and call it ARSE? ) card is a good idea in addition. It adds a sense of belonging.

OK, belonging and brand loyalty is good.

We've come a long way if it's now just down to a discussion about name and cost!

So, I'll tell Paul that we are minded to go ahead at that he can sort out his end while we top and tail stuff our end?

I'll ask that he maintains confidentiality until all's squared off and we go public....

Yep, agreed.

yup, works for me.

OK, back to CiA cards then.

Plastic credit cards types are cheap to produce but cost goes up according to complexity.

Would a card with sequential numbering and a signature strip suffice - cost less than £1? Personalisation with integral photos and name text is possible but are expensive unless done in large batches - also means getting digital photos from people and pesky data handling. It would just be a duplication of the AFRA card, so I see little point in going this far.

No need for a photo. Just a card with CiA branding all over it and the info like you said. It's more of a token gesture and marketing ploy than anything else.

OK, so would they
a) be given out like business cards - to all and sundry with need for number or sig strip
b) to members who have bought into the AFRA scheme - card number matches a name on our database
c) to signed up members who have not bought into the AFRA scheme - card number matches a name on our database

If options b) or c) then it does open future possibilities - other sites/retailers offering discounts or offers to 'proper' CIA members, rather than forum users.

Option B gets my vote.

Dont have to get flash with membership cards. Those little laminated pockets and a passport type photo are what the vast majority of reenactment groups do.

Option B for me too. They either take advantage of our offer of AFRA affiliated CiA membership or they don't. Keeps it simple.

Heh, been thinking on the way home!

We have numbered CiA cards which are issued alongside AFRA issues. We record usual personal info against the number on our records.

But from now on, all players at CiA games automatically become CiA members - get a card and number.

a) CiA players are thanked by becoming CiA members.
b) We build up an official bank on known, genuine players for future verification purposes, as yet undefined (we may split from AFRA, might be a UKARA link up, might be legislation change - who knows)
c) Used to identify 'proper' players for our AFRA acceptance rules
d) Players (rather than forum jockeys) are elevated in status - feel special, loyal
e) May be used by others to give special offers or discounts (10% discount on AI subscription joke but you get the idea!)

No reason why we can't issue retrospectively and/or to game players other than ours, if we choose to.

In other words - only players can be CiA members plus it gives a better, self-administered, non-specific retailer scheme than the one I tried with 6mil (who lost interest and didn't follow up).

Lots of future uses than can't be anticipated but it's flexible and simple enough to just use as a simple membership card all the way to loyalty schemes.

Sounds good, I like yer thunks.

Interesting proposal from PD.

I told him that we had agreed in principle that a the AFRA affiliation is a direction we would like to move in.

I said we had moved on to costing and explained that (apart from other issues) it would be difficult to charge more than £15 as players could just go direct anyway.

Reply:

Very Short answer and a quick Suggestioin - What if...... and I wish for you to consider the morality, practicality of this.....
What if AFRA were to only accept CiA members AT THIS TIME..........
So any airsofter would have to go through you as it were.... Shades of Empire Building I know - But you could actually validate them..... AND - we are assured that we have bona fide WWII airsofters joining.
Give this your consideration and let me know.........
Horrido!
PD

I've thought about it - it's practical, not immoral, not empire building but it is of value to CiA. As long as it's not exploited, profiteering or ripping off.
It will cost us money to administer - postage, envelopes, phone calls, membership cards, paper. We could pay it out of our own pockets (it's small amounts, but why should we) - we could take it out of game funds (which would diminish what players are paying for and we rarely have money to burn).

Or we could charge £20 and be done with it. Say £3.50 left after expenses x 50 players in first year = < £200 - not a great deal but something that could be used for bigger, permanent props, or whatever....

Thinking about it, its a bloody good idea. We get to "lead from the front" (which will probably mean a rattle-out-of-pram situation from SH, but hey, who gives a fuck?), and from AFRA's point of view there is an additional level of member verification. To be perfectly honest, its the ideal situation.

But, there are some changes that need to be made. There needs to be some form of perceived "separation" between forum, gaming, and membership of the yet un-named WW2 Airsoft battle reenactors association/society.

1: CiA Forum = the central hub for UK WW2 Airsofters
2: CiA Gaming = putting on high-quality, innovative, immersive WW2 Airsoft battles
3: WW2 Airsoft Battle Reenactors Society (or, whatever it ends up getting called) = the society for WW2 Airsofter reenactors that does blah, blah, blah, and means you can do XYZ.

Being on the forum doesn't make you a player, attending a game doesn't automatically make you a member of the society/Assoc. You need to apply for membership and meet the minimum requirements of the society/association (2 games in XXX amount of time, or some other shit)

Money wise, It costs what it costs, it shouldn't come out of our pockets, or out of game fees.

That's fine, but I'm going to pick those points over...

...There needs to be some form of perceived "separation"...

I agree, but my emphasis is different.

For all this to happen (and needs to be done any way) Comrades in Arms needs to be formalised - a constitution, committee and bank account.
All it's activities need to be under that umberella otherwise administratively and legally it will be a nightmare (I'm already being questioned by Paypal with money-laundering questions because of the cash flow through my account for Wotan and Eagle).

I agree 100% that the forum and it's users aren't remotely associated with anything to do with AFRA membership.

I'm guessing that you are worried the public perception might be that we have 'sold out' - we have given up on the inclusive and moved to the darker side of reenactment.
I agree with that danger - however it can be handled with clear and unambiguous public statements and the simple facts of the reality.

So I am agreeing with the word 'perception' in the above quote - for sure.

But I don't agree with changing any names. One of our strengths is our brand !

Got to get ready for work... I'll expand on this later in the day.

Yes, I agree that CiA forums and CiA gaming/association should be dealt with separately as Dave says.

Could we perhaps create separate identities for both 'products'? I'm thinking about how someone like Apple have produced the iTunes and the iPod brands as separate and individually branded items yet intrinsically related. (Bad analogy but you know what I mean).

I don't think there will be a perception that we've sold out in any way. As long as we make it clear that CiA are representing the inclusive airsoft market within the exclusive reenactment world and that nothing will essentially change then I don't see it as a problem. We are effectively going to be our own 'society' with our own rules, which are extremely inclusive. PBI and Kampfgruppe members will be welcome to join, as will the individual player who has no group affiliation and perhaps only has a small amount of authentic kit.

I do VERY much like the idea of being the only representation for WW2 airsofters as this would create clarity, uniformity and unity and will give us a stronger voice. I hate the idea of all the different, and transient, groups applying en masse all with differing opinions. In short, we set the rules, which are very inclusive and the players reap the benefit.

S