Constitution

Again, you confuse the two issues. They are unrelated. We have to do this if we want a bank account - bog all to do with RIFs.

Again, you confuse the two issues. They are unrelated. We have to do this if we want a bank account - bog all to do with RIFs.

No you are confusing the two issues and they are related .

I agree our constitution is expressely that....... ours.....it is needed so we are a reenactment group and get a bank account etc. What I think we are getting confused on is what is membership ?.

As I read it you think it is a general "join CiA which means you can then go on to join AFRA as an option", whereas the rest of us seem to think that joining CiA meant you automatically joined AFRA as an afilliate and got the VCR defence. Hence annual membership, subs etc .

I personally feel a general open membership could be a waste of time and effort, whereas the affilated scheme is worthwhile as memebrs get sommit for it .

gimme a bell on 01484 667 152 if you like, it's easier to talk than type

As I read it you think it is a general "join CiA which means you can then go on to join AFRA as an option", whereas the rest of us seem to think that joining CiA meant you automatically joined AFRA as an afilliate and got the VCR defence. Hence annual membership, subs etc .

Complete and utter waste of time - all this for 10-15 AFRA members! Bollox!!

If all this is is just an elaborate scheme to enable a few members of the public to buy RIFs the easy way then I'm stopping it here and now.

For crying out loud, forget about AFRA - for the purposes of creating a constitution. They are wholly unrelated (other than wording has been chosen not to pigeon hole CiA as an airsoft group - not entirely necessary but might save hassle further down the line).

We need a bank account.
We need to make CiA less 'casual'.

To do this we need a constitution.

A constitution needs to simply define structure, aims, membership.
How complex is that?

I'm pretty drunk, im in a bad mood, so this is my take on things...

1: David is right, we need the constitution so we can form as an official group/association/society/whatever - then get the financial side sorted out.

2: The whole CiA "members" thing is purely there to facilitate the whole group/association/society/whatever, as if CiA didnt have members, then it couldn't be a group/association/society/whatever could it? - it would be something else. Hello Mr Taxman.

3: Something tangible has to be offered to members. Or why else would they join up?. The "so we're part of the club" thing might work well with kids, but with cynical old bastards like me, i just think "whats the benefit to ME?" Priority booking at events? Discounts? Fuck knows - needs thinking about.

4: The AFRA thing is at the same time separate, but linked. It needs to be made crystal fucking clear that "basic membership" doesnt give you the same as the "AFRA affiliated membership"

Now i've managed to retype this all so its makes sense, im off to crack open another bottle of vino.

Yay, agreed on all four points!

Elaboration on point 3:
It doesn't cost them anything to join CiA - it's automatic for players of our games. They will have to fill in a form that asks for personal details - no problem if they opt out but it will be useful for us administratively (for example, at a later date they wish to join the AFRA scheme and we grandfather them in, we will have documentary evidence they are a player and over 18).
You are right, they will need a personal advantage, a shiny card aint enough. Many ideas here from advance notice of games, players section of forum, supplier discounts, priority game booking, freebies, CiA forum avatar - no need to discuss these now, just chucking ideas. It doesn't have to be a big deal - it's free after all.

EDITED original post .

Can we clarify this ?

My view :-

1 Run an AFRA affiliated membership scheme at £15 a head, based on kit and game attendancy .

not

2 A general membership scheme with the option of using it to join AFRA .

I think 1 will have limited appeal, but offer members something worth having and gives CiA a competitive edge with regards to the VCR .

I think 2 is a lot of work for not a lot of return . yes we could capture peoples details and use them in the future, but TBH we already have the forum for that . I don't like the idea of trying otadminister a two tier membership scheme either .

At then end of the day I'll go with the general consensus of the rest of you , so suggest we clarify this point and then move on , as I think we've debated the merits of both for a while now.

your preference Stephen ?

My 2p.

Both stances make perfect sense to be honest. Whilst the original idea to set this up was the AFRA membership, it does make sense from a constitutional point of view to just tackle the CiA set-up.

Whilst I do think that CiA membership isn't really much of a draw, and the AFRA tie-in creates value, it does make sense to create a CiA membership that can then 'buy-in' to the AFRA ticket.

I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place on this. Whilst I'd like to see us setting up CiA membership directly associated and affiliated to AFRA there is the issue that it will then become reliant on the position and policies of AFRA as the more 'powerful' organisation and the CiA side of it becomes less valued, or even valueless.

Going back to our original reason for thinking about setting this up, we wanted to find a way for our membership to become AFRA members to enable them to have a defence to the VCR Act, no?

Whilst that still makes sense there is a strong argument for just formalising CiA and attaching the AFRA ticket separately.

I think we've got things a little muddied here. Dave, what you are saying is certainly different to what we discussed last Sunday, but does make sense.

I'm inclined to not really give that much of a shit about the structure of all this as long as CiA has a recognised voice and membership that is seen as the benchmark for WW2 Airsoft.

S

Whilst the original idea to set this up was the AFRA membership

Again, you come back to this false premise. Our constition has nothing to do with AFRA - we are picking up where it got left off six months ago.

No muddle, no confusion, it's dead simple. Our discussion last Sunday did concern AFRA because we were discussing the whys and wherefores of affiliatship.
But it has nothing to do with our constitution, structure or membership (other than we can't have a constitution that makes joining AFRA impossible, hence the use of the word 'reenactment' rather than 'airsoft').

I'll put this as simply as I can (which considering what I drank last night, shouldn't be difficult)

1: We need to sort out the financial side of things

2: To get a bank account we need to be a club/society/association.

3: To be a club/society/association we need to have members. If we don't, then HMR&C might look at it as a business - as would a bank.

4: To become a club/society/association we need to have a constitution.

5: The AFRA thing comes on top of that lot.

That make sense?

Jay - open membership with option to link to AFRA, or AFRA affiliated membership only ?

Thats seems to be the point in question . I know there's merits to both but which do you prefer?

OK, that's stupid - I'm out of here.

I've done what I can to make CiA an outwardly professional go-ahead group but it's clear everyone is happy with a shambling amateur outfit, so that's fine.

Stephen, I'm going to send you a cheque for the standing balance of CiA so that you can distribute monies as and when they are required.

If anyone has a reason to chuck it in, it's me. I was diagnosed with Macular Dystrophy last year, a nice insidious genetic defect that means you end up losing your central vision. It can either happen rapidly, or slowly. There is no fucking cure, and I don't even know if i'll even be able to fucking drive next year, let alone fucking play Airsoft.

So let's put things in perspective. The formation of CiA as a club is not something to get overly stressed about. Yes, we may have differences of opinion, but they can be worked through.

Aw shit , I've got no job, I haven't got the time to run CiA either .

Jay sorry to hear about the MD , I'll keep my hopes up for you . If alcohol helps any I'll provide it in copious amounts every time we meet.

Anyhoo ,

having now discussed this with CW , as a shambling doley amatuer the confusion has now been sorted .

We appear to have a constitution no one has objected to so that can be signed off .
We will have a membership scheme based on attending our events alone , I'll get on with a database and membership form .
We have minutes of our first AGM
We need to get a bank account to avoid HMRC issues .

Anything else or can we now shamble onto our next drama?

PS This is about us enjoying a hobby , 100% agree that stress is not what it's about . Forum discussions are not the best way to work this out .

Sorry to hear that Jay, grrr you make me feel a right tit now!

I'm suffering from rapid ageing where time slips through your fingers like butter from hot toast, where a minute wasted is a minute closer to death - let's get the feck on and sort this shit!

Ok, lets get this done...

And guys, id prefer no-one outside of the 4 of us finds out about my little problem. You are the first people aside from my brother who know about this.

Ok, lets get this done...

And guys, id prefer no-one outside of the 4 of us finds out about my little problem. You are the first people aside from my brother who know about this.

Goes without saying mate . I'm just sorry you've been dealt such a shitty blow.

Heh! I go out for a quick walk around town and another one of you nearly jacks it all in!! What's that about!?

Anyway, I'm easy either way, like I said. I just want to make sure we cover all the bases, ask all the pertinent questions and are all clear about it and pulling in the same direction, I don't really care what direction that is, as long as it's not towards Todmorden or Uttoxeter.

Jay, that really is shitty news, and of course it's in confidence.

I've gone through AFRA's stuff, chucked out irrelevant stuff, then integrated it into Guy's initial draft....

Constitution for Comrades in Arms WWII Re-enactment Group

Purpose
Comrades in Arms WWII Re-enactment Group (CiA) exists as a non profit making group to organise high quality World War II re-enactment events and to provide a hub for WWII enthusiasts. CiA looks to encourage and promote other groups and playing sites to organise similar WWII events, and to forge links between suppliers, sites, and re-enactors.

Organisation
There are two levels of status within CiA: Executive Officers and Ordinary Members

Executive
The Executive consists of Executive Officers (EO’s) are defined as responsible for the running the group activities, website and forum. Among their specific roles are:

Chair
Secretary
Treasurer
Membership
Safety Officer
Events Coordinator
External Relations[/list:u:scprwymc]

EO’s may have multiple roles and/or roles other than the above list as agreed amongst themselves. EO’s are invited to the post by mutual agreement amongst the existing EO’s.
EO’s are only allowed to be reimbursed for CiA related expenditure and may not receive recompense for their time or other loss of earnings.

Members
Ordinary Members (OM’s) are defined as people who share the aims and objectives of CiA, but have no direct responsibilities in the running of the group, no voting rights or take part in any decision making process. OM’s can apply for membership through the Membership Officer, who will be responsible for keeping an up to date list of members details. OM’s join on a lifetime basis, and it is not mandatory to be a member to play at a CiA event but only players at CiA events may become OM‘s. CiA may take a part in organising or sponsoring other organisation’s events which case the EO’s may decide it has the status of a CiA event and so enable CiA Ordinary Membership to be considered.
OM’s will be required to abide by rules laid down by - membership can be removed at any time by the EO's

General Meetings
The Annual General Meeting ( AGM) shall take place during 1st month of each year.
The agenda of the AGM shall include, but not be limited to, Treasurer, Membership & Safety Officer, and Events Coordinator report.
The roles taken by the EO's will be agreed on at most an annual basis by consent at the AGM or intermediate period.

Assets
A list of assets owned by the group will be maintained by the EO's. Examples of assets are:-
The CiA brand name and Logo
The Website and Forum
Props constructed or Purchased by CiA funds
Pyrotechnics, uniforms or other game relates items

The Ownership of these assets is by CiA, EO’s retiring form CiA have no direct claim to them except by mutual agreement. In the event of CiA deciding to disband, the distribution of assets will be between the EO’s by mutual agreement.

General Rules of Conduct for the Playing of Games

CiA events will abide by the rules of the site hosting the event. In the event of conflict, the host site’s rules will take precedent over CiA's own rules.
Uniform, weapons and other equipment shall be appropriate to the WWII period, either original, reproduction, or 'look alike'.[/list:u:scprwymc]

General philosophy of Comrades in Arms

Non-profit making and site independent
Organise WW2 games that follow a 'film-sim' principle (restricted ammo, authentic uniforms and weapons, period props) giving a high degree of suspension of disbelief
Clear and consistent rules for CiA and CiA supported games
Encourage site owners to run like-minded WW2 games
Create a hub for WW2 enthusiasts
Forge links between suppliers, sites and players
Keep an 'friendly and inclusive' approach rather than 'elitist and stitch-counting'
To be loyal to the Queen, her heirs and successors[/list:u:scprwymc]

This appears to be the latest draft beforew this thread descended into chaos
Is the anything MAJOR in there that anyone objects to ?

Fine by me !

Let's run with it...

Yarp, all good.

(Barring the 'kin Queen line at the bottom.)