are we trying to fix something not broken?

maybe new players should be encouraged to join a squad of veterans rather than play as a complete squad of new players.

I feel my question has blown up in my face! My aim was not to challenge, complain or presurise any event organiser (believe me, I am most grateful to all who put the many hours of hard work, research and passion into enabling me to run around like a loon in the woods ) but to simply pose the question 'are the rule developments good for the game'? I will support as many games as I can viably afford and as most of you will recognise, i get about a bit. I love the whole ww2 scene, and my fears were that after reading some of the ongoing debates about rules, ammo limits, support weapons, rifle only games, etc etc etc that people might be turned off from attending and thus the genre suffering.
I think as well, not everyone has their finger on the pulse of all that goes on and is discussed and so I thought me poser would give people the chance to say what the thought and why the rue changes occurred.
I fully support the development of the game and will try anything. Changes such as steel helmets get you 2 bandages and a cloth cap only 1, being able to crawl for cover when wounded, re-loading by hand in the field have been real positives for me to name but a few.
So to those I might have annoyed, my apologies . My intent was harmless and purely in the hope to gain some insight.

Absolutely no need to apologise John you have a perfect right to voice your thoughts and questions on this forum - your initial post was perfectly clear, non-confrontational and valid.

By all means post up 'ideas', but I think were all getting a bit sick of problems! Especially when there NOT realy problems!

It depends how you look at it - if players feel the events they enjoyed it the past are not being provided for any more and say so publicly (and worse, leave the game) then that is a problem. What is wrong with catering for all customer's requirements? The tightly focussed 40 player games are well catered for (which is nice) - what happened to the 120 player more accessible and fun-focussed games? Anarchy last year focussed on fun, Hänschen klein's game was also light in terms of commitment - so others are giving it a whirl and finding it works.

I thought your post was fine Jonny mate, just the last in as series a threads that have done nothing positive. I think you have actually given the organisers a chance to respond on common ground rather than the back end of an event.

Just one last thing from me on this. I've noticed a new trend in criticism arriving before events have even got of the ground. By all means state issues after an event, but it's crazy that events are getting negative feedback before they have even taken a booking. Your only damaging your own chances of event actually happening.
No one cares about guys who can't make it or don't like it, only ones that do.

If your not interested, then please keep your public opinions to yourself. By all means use pming or emailing the organiser with concerns or opinions.

Now then, get booking and let's get this year off to a good start aye.

Fully endorse Josh's last post and previous re. 'accentuating the positive'.

General note: this forum is a community forum. In the past when everything was an offshoot of Comrades in Arms there was a huge amount of flak with regard to overbearing organiser influence. Those days have gone and players shouldn't feel any pressure to apologise for posts or fear bringing up issues for discussion (within politeness and common decency bounds of course). That is what forums are for.

From what I've read there doesn't seem to be a problem here, the possible attendants to games have the last say on whether they go or not, if a game organizer wants there to be real steel limits and capped games etc etc etc, then at least give it a try, you'll then either love it or hate and you can act from there.

Also the World War II Airsoft scene has potential unlike any other, there's always more to experiment with, it's just the case of trial and error on what works and what is just plain awful, I may only be 1 game old with the Gothic Line medal under my belt, but I can see it clear as day that there is nothing wrong here, there's a large variety of organizers across the spectrum of realism and inclusiveness, I'm more concerned on getting to games than what their rules are, I'm in Doncaster which usually means I have long distances to travel to get to games, waking up at 5 AM to get to the Gothic Line is not the best way to start the weekend, but it's worth it.

I believe that there should be more games in the year, a large mix of realistic games and games to draw in the newcomers with looser rules on dress etc, there should be experimentation with new ideas as it could mean discovering a game type that is popular and if you see a game that has rules which you're not sure of or don't like, don't go to it, there's plenty more games to play.

On another note, I hope that there's another game like "The Visit Of Hauptmann Horn", as including the easier to portray groups like The Home Guard/Partisans could be a way to give unsure newcomers a taste of what it's like to do WW2 Airsoft without the need for heavy investment in any nationality's equipment, as we all know it leaves your wallet empty and your bank account bare.

Just a slight side note, there seems to be a prevailing thought that more focused events with tighter rules are for experienced WW2 players and the looser more open events are more beginner friendly. I really don't think that's the case, it's just that people are looking for variety.

I've never seen an event organiser turn anyone away for 'not having the right kit' no matter how they have framed the event. Josh has tons of hire kit, most organisers make concessions for those without full kit (eg partisan or civilian roles...*COUGH* Grafton Park) or there's a whole community here who will lend stuff.

CiA have NEVER laid down strict uniform rules...ever. We have always allowed people with 'looks like' kit to attend. Sure, there are some tighter events, but the majority will allow you to turn up in a green shirt and trousers.

As has been said pretty much everywhere before, the success in how you participate in WW2 events is not about what you look like on the outside, but how you think and accept the ethos of the event. To be brutally honest, I suspect that some of the recent issues that have been discussed about events pre- and post-hoc HAVE been about the issues that people have had with the game ethos and their willingness to accept it rather than restriction on kit, ammo and specific rules.

In conclusion, I simply refer the prosecution to the First Rule of CiA, coined in 2006, which, for those that don't already know, is: 'Don't be a cock'. Follow that, and you won't go wrong.

Very wise words there sir, I've never seen mention of the laxity of uniforms, but that's probably because I fell into a pit of ignorance as I'd already got a basic set of kit together a while before The Gothic Line, I stand corrected on that point.

Fully endorse Josh's last post and previous re. 'accentuating the positive'.

General note: this forum is a community forum. In the past when everything was an offshoot of Comrades in Arms there was a huge amount of flak with regard to overbearing organiser influence. Those days have gone and players shouldn't feel any pressure to apologise for posts or fear bringing up issues for discussion (within politeness and common decency bounds of course). That is what forums are for.

Hear hear.

Fully endorse Josh's last post and previous re. 'accentuating the positive'.

General note: this forum is a community forum. In the past when everything was an offshoot of Comrades in Arms there was a huge amount of flak with regard to overbearing organiser influence. Those days have gone and players shouldn't feel any pressure to apologise for posts or fear bringing up issues for discussion (within politeness and common decency bounds of course). That is what forums are for.

Hear hear.

Seconded.

even though i am new ish, I have found the nice mix very attactive, allowing me to pick and choice the type of event I feel like at the time. I am happy for the organisors to just keep doing what they are doing, they take the risks and at the end of the day registered numbers and turnout define whether people like an idea or want to try something. Im just happy we have a choice of organisors which allows for the diversity.

Two things needed for a good WW2 event.
1. A good organiser
2. Players with the right attitude

As long as organisors are clear what they want to achieve when offering the event and players agree to adhere to the guide lines and mentality of the event, it should work, even if the idea or scenarios dont neccessaily work, the effort of the organisors and the commitment of the players will pull any event into the realms of success.

just keep doing what your doing.................all new ideas bring new options and turnout will decide which way the scene goes in the long run. only time will tell. good question, but hard to answer as im not sure anyone know where the ww2 scene will end up in the long run, new ideas breeds innovation - who knows what these crazy organsors come up with next, I for one cant wait to see.

Isn't this the long run, yet? Isn't what we have now* where the scene has ended up? The scene has been around a good few years now, we've been doing it since 2006. i don't think there really has been a great deal of change in the spirit of the events. People (players and organisers) still put time and effort in to them and approach them with a good attitude.

Oh and Josh, you don't have to defend anything you do.

I wonder if discussions like this happen more often when it's cold in the dark of winter and there aren't that many games to prepare for.

(*A pretty lively scene with a good place with a reasonably large number of regular, keen players and an interesting variety of events. )

Totally agree, Ranj. The scene will always be changing and moving, and offering completely different types of events, because of the various organisers. There never will be a definitive event, unless we actually say one shot = your life, and you can't return home, either!

Speaking on behalf of AGS, we borrow and adapt ideas from all the other organisers, and maybe some of them do the same. The differences in sites will allow for different rules and nuances to be tried out. Some might work well, some less well - but again, as a previous poster said, it also depends on the attendees getting into the right mindset.