Attending WWII airsoft events

There is Gunmans "Op Greenback" game in August as well. That is due to be at Eversley which is not so far from Southampton or Salisbury.

while i do use ww2 kit at walk on days its mainly to get used to it and make sure i dont spend ww2 game time fecking about with kit.it also has the effect of drawing interest to ww2 events so no bad thing.but there is far more immersion in a site that is new and unmapped by me ,really adds to the day.i use the same rule of thumb of time in the car must be less than field time but i'll make exceptions for something that tickles me.up till now ive been working 6 days on 3 days off for the last 8 years and finding games on days im not working has been hard but im now back to monday to friday so its game onn .price wise i dont have a problem as most games are under £50 but im seriously looking at car shareing on longer runs in future.

There is Gunmans "Op Greenback" game in August as well. That is due to be at Eversley which is not so far from Southampton or Salisbury.

That is true but the fee has already killed that one for me, sign of the times sadly but I just can't justify that sort of cost for an event especially since it's just on a normal airsoft site. By comparision the next "In Country" Vietnam weekend at Combat South also in August is only £30 for the two days. I'm trying to spread what I can afford spending on hobbies across not just airsoft but also reenactment events that are within sensible reach. None of which is helped by the move back to Salisbury looking to be increasingly unlikely due to remortgage problems. Looks like they won't give me much more than my last remortage several years ago despite being on a higher salary now, as a result we're falling short of what's needed. Basically to an outsider it's "Stupid Hobbies on a tight budget"!

Well guys I have been looking at our booking list for The Dirty Dozen and the German side is looking a tad sad
viewtopic.php?f=206&t=14049
I have got 4 guys on there who are not replying to PM's / emails so don't know if they will turn up on the day.

So this morning I have been doing some google searching for forums to advertise on in some way.

I have been informed of a group of guys who play German at F&O so need to try and find them for a chat.

Anyway after searching
I was going to say post on here http://www.arrse.co.uk then I did more search on their site and found them to think airsoft was crap

However this was back in 2004 I then had a read though all 8 pages of this thread and was well please by the end

http://www.arrse.co.uk/training-wing/53 ... g-aid.html

Take time to read how Alpha55 wins them over it is a good read

Do note that thread is from 2004... and probably completely forgotten by now.

Do note that thread is from 2004... and probably completely forgotten by now.

Yes but it shows they did manage to convert many of the members, also airsoft has well took off since then.
Back then I would have just airsoft down myself in many ways as just being cheap plastic stuff maybe or at least a few years prior.

im sure alpha55 used to be known a troop on the ASSCOCK forum a few years ago, think the group run the games at CERI and north wales, they helped old un run the A2C game in 2008 if i remember.

not sure that any of them would find chateau their bag nigel

Yes, be careful with the "bums on seats" thing. It's always better to get slightly fewer players who "get it", rather than a shitload of idiots who just want trigger time. I appreciate that the costs of the site need to be covered but, if you piss off those who have the right mindset by dragging in a bunch of dickheads, you risk more long term effects.

True I decided not to bother with them anyway but liked the thread so thought it worth a post up

I was talking with a mate last Sunday whilst at a local site, and we were reminiscing about the first D Day game in Wales, and how it would be good to get back into the WW2 scene again. The cost of fuel and travel times raised their ugly heads as previously mentioned.
Living at the arse end of the country doesn`t help, my mate works shifts and I find myself between jobs again. Realistically we could probably manage one maybe two WW2 games a year with a bit of pre planning.
The D Day game in Wales was just over four hours travelling time each way which was enough. If we went to most of the games nowadays we`d be travelling six to eight hours each way I would imagine, and the fuel costs would be crippling, even though I can coax 50 mpg out of the motor.
As CW mentioned it`s a case of having enough disposable income, and justifying the expense on the family budget, something which I haven`t been able to do for the last couple of years.

prefer bigger games.

put off by overpriced "events".

dont mind structured, squad based, tactic stuff as long as commanders arent decided simply because they have the uniform for it and no understanding of basic tactics.

unlikely to travel over 100 miles.

probably only go to games that dont require badging up malarky, fairly inclusive, by this i mean i enjoy the feel of playing the game and getting immersed in the playing, not worrying about re enacting a particular battle because it is unlikely to portray it very well being airsoft and you already know the outcome. the terrain is unlikely to match the original, etc. i can get lost in the playing and trying to complete missions enough to not worry about what the actual scenario is.

my usual airsoft pals dont do ww2 so i havent been for ages but i think i might attend something this year, need to buy a gun again.

edit just read some of the other posts, regarding camping, completely uninterested in taking it that far, its a game, i play then social, if its a two dayer il camp but not poncing about with period campsite rubbish, that is re enacting to me (i dont mean to be offensive with that statement).

2nd edit, after being away from the ww2 scene for ages, ive just had a look round the forums and had a read of the upcoming events, i probably wont be interested in any of them, it seems everything has gone a bit too serious for me, with the limits and excessive rules it sounds like there is no leeway, follow orders or leave no use ur own initiative if you see an opportunity, (i understand the squad based organisation of the game and not lonewolfing it). i think the ammo limits are too restrictive for smgs, i like limits, allow for proper tactics but think the limits are too low. the appointment of squad commanders/officers/sgts looks like whoever wants to be in charge and has the uniform can, then they can ruin the day for those that have to follow the orders then if you dont like it dont turn up attitude seems to be here, so i probably wont.

Thats a shame buddy, though from the events you have attended (Carentan and Epsom), nothing HAS changed! bar the one thing you agree with which is the standing orders! Your allowed you opinion of course, but I think your selling yourself out of the games rather than the games arnt what you want....they are the same games, with the same organisers running the same stuff!

Sad as the hobby needs bums on seats but fair well old chum and hope to catch you in the field at something else

the appointment of squad commanders/officers/sgts looks like whoever wants to be in charge and has the uniform can, then they can ruin the day for those that have to follow the orders then if you dont like it dont turn up attitude seems to be here, so i probably wont.

Bit confused about your point here. For commanders (speaking as one for a lot of Josh's games), *someone* has to run the sides, to co ordinate, and do all the out of game comms between sides and boring logistics and planning stuff that would detract from a 'players' game. These appointments are generally done at the request of the organisers beforehand.

As regards squad leaders, they don't have any special uniform or rank insignia, and are usually taken from volunteers on the day. You'd be surprised how difficult it can be to get said volunteers, as well, so it's not wannabe jobsworths wanting to order other people about and throw their weight around, it's people pushed into leadership out of necessity. Much like the real thing, a lot of the time.

As for the rest of your post, sorry you don't feel ww2 airsoft is for you. I personally feel that squad structure and command, orders and objectives beyond 'capture that flag' are what makes ww2 airsoft, way beyond just dressing up in silly kit.

I have to echo Evos views here:

At the 'gothic line' I was asked by Josh to run the german side (probably because i've got a backgorund of about ten years running events and about five years running airsoft ones so know how the logistic and 'game plan' issues work - being ex forces probably gives me a reasonable handle on 'small unit tactics' like you recomment too) and with 70 players a side or whatever we needed team leaders.

Some of the guys were obvious choices but we asked for volunteers, some came forwards straight away, a few who i knew had led groups before were asked and agreed (but most folk dont want the responsibility) the problem was that I had four groups and only THREE people so far had agreed to be platoon leaders. Note only one of them was dressed as an officer and thats because we knew in advance he'd be commanding a vehicles, hence he was the obvious choice to lead the mech platoon.

Anyway the fourth platoon couldnt decide so i handed them a radio and said 'one of you 15 *has* to do it', which was a massive mistake on my point as it pretty much got pushed on the quietest guy who objected the least... i could see he was really uncomfortable with it and persuaded Tony/Rifleman in that group to take the role on (hes ex army too and a former NCO so knows what hes doing)... the thing is he didnt want to do it but did it as he knew the whole section/platoon would just be in chaos if the 'leader' didnt want to do it.

The big problem with events is that usually the guy badged up as an ss colonel who wants to be a leader is usually the worst equipped/suited to be so.. organisers like Josh need to ask players on the day who they know wont loose their temper, get too bossy or even get distracted by a firefight to do these roles. You have to ask a player who has paid £50 to sit back and spend half their time relaying radio orders from the organisers.

I can appreciate it probably seems really 'clicky' but its not, people are asked to volunteer or chosen from regulars who you know have a calm head.

I can see your concerns about ammo limits too, thing is you dont know til you try these things whether they will make the game better or not.

Back in 2006 we ran the first *big* wwii game with loose kit restrictions, counts as weapons, no structure and ammo limits that were so high you'd have to be throwing bag fulls at people to run out. Over that time we've listend to players 'wows' (and their grumbles) and every organising group has altered their rulesset. It turns out that most organisers run a similar ruleset as we play at each others games and go 'wow that was good' and nick the idea or adapt it.

My point being is that when we dropped ammo limits from 600 to 300 there was no end of moaning it would kill the game but everyone pretty much felt it improved things.

It like you're ok with the standing orders, before we put in 'you need three to go out and attack' rules in one of the biggest grumbles was that a group of guys had spent ages working as a team (as soldiers did in wwii) and were all wiped out by a guy who had tiptoed around the very edge of the site boundary to outflank them on his own... basically playing the 'rules' not the 'game'.

an overall commander handing out missions isnt my issue its the playing which is my primary interest. you can split into sections/squads to achieve the missions/objectives, natural leaders tend to come to the fore when the section is in trouble not on the booking form. the rigidity doesnt allow any initiative that is my interpretation of the rules some are posting to for booking onto their games.

Ah re-read your post and i see what you mean now.

Again i dont think this is actually what happens at events.

The 'squad leaders' on booking forms are usually either organisers of that group (for example PBI used to have six organisers at one point, CIA had the same number, Army Group south have four or five chaps.

On the day, as i've said, some other leaders are appointed but its really just the guys who have the radio.

As you say, the commanders give out orders and the 'squad leaders' relay these to the 10-20 man groups, in those group the natural leaders do come out as you *always* end up having to sub divide the unit or bits of it get cut off and reformed elsewhere when you take casualties.

I'm not having a go, i can totally understand where your frustration/worries come from, I just think they might be things that look bad 'on paper' but are not an issue when you're in the battle.

In regard to the games at Gunman North West in 2013

One , 17th feb is a very low level of kit , rules , and is a very "Inclusive" game as regards kit , orders and general gameplay

the second, 21st April, is EXTREMELY RESTRICTIVE, in kit , weapons allowed, rules, ammo and orders.

Ive run one game of each type , as players from both camps have asked me to run games.

After trying at 3 events (anarchy, chateau and Fuheres) to get a happy medium, i have given up on the concept.
The "Restrictive" type players get cross with the "inclusive" type players and vice versa, so from now on im running TWO DIFFERENT types of games, and they will be clearly "marked on the tin" which kind of event is which.

each individual organizer/ group of organizers are now running the kind of games they prefer.

WW2 airsoft has never had so much choice , and i think thats a good thing .

hope you can find a more "inclusive game" to attend, nearly all Joshes at Gunman are the most inclusive ive seen

Just a quick one, I personally have not heard a great deal of moaning from any of the events I have been too on ammo limits.

At Anarchy and at Chateau everyone after the event who I spoke too said the ammo limits should of been lowered! (at the time they were 600) as your died in most cases before getting through 50% of your ammo.

The only real "huff" which I have got from reading in between the lines has come from the Real Steel ammo limits. And this showed it self (to me anyways) with the lack of initial bookings on Josh's game in March. (which he isn't using now for those un aware.) When i first joined the WW2 scene I missed my first event as it was fully booked as I was too slow to get my name down and almost did the same thing on the 2nd event as I only got a space from some one dropping out. Although this could be a coincidence am I am totally wrong! For those of you that read Josh's rules furthur you would of noted that you actually would of been able to carry more ammo at his real steel event that you would of done at one of his normal days. Using a thompson as an example with a standard mag would of allowed you to hold 30+5 rounds. Times that by the 10 mags you were allowed to carry and BANG! 350 rounds an increase of 50 rounds for the Thompson user that day.

You could say I am a novice as I have only been to 6 WW2 events and 1 NAM event but the one thing I like about the rules is that they are simple. There have been some small tweaks which have been made over just the few events I have been too which have made it more enjoyable for me. Thease are:-

Moving out as a squad 3+ (bigger fire fights and squad tactics could be used to some degree )
Steel Helmets give you +1 Bandage (Now there is a point of wearing a helmet, say instead of a cap)
Reducing the Ammo Limit too meant that protecting (or moving up with) support weapons was needed.
Allowing Bolties to fire at 370 FPS with no minimum engagement distance was a nice tweak too. If did want to tune your gun you would have a very very small advantage over a smg but still be able to use it in a CQB enviorment. (instead of running back 20 paces as you was to close to shoot an enemy )

I surpose all I am saying is with the current rules what is there not too like?

And going back to the Real Steel point quickly the only issue I saw with the example I gave was the owning of 10 mags for a gun added in another potential cost factor which I think relates to people more and more these days. Before I even knew CIA and this community even excisted I was attending open days in my 82nd Jump suit, with a collection of yank guns. And since my intoduction to the forum have brought a Brit load out too. (no guns yet though!) So the only thing I would ask any organiser (and most do!) is just be flexable on what kit you can allow. As I just cant justify to buy anymore. And as there is alot of "Yank hate" around I feel that spending all my money on U.S. gear seems a bit of a waste. However I suppose I can eat my own words as I am pleased to see that so far 60% of events this year have allowed U.S. I hope this statistic continues.

@ Gadge. With the radio thing, having as many people assigned before the event starts would be a bonus. You can probably rely one 1-2 people but even then they might not want to play "that role" for an event. If the 4th platoon really objected would it not been possible to merge them with another?

Stu

However I suppose I can eat my own words as I am pleased to see that so far 60% of events this year have allowed U.S.

I think the US is generally fairly well represented in games, and Josh almost always goes with mixed US/British forces in his battle games (apart from the Eastern Front ones!). I find I get less opportunities to wear British or Russian stuff, but I've not actually done a 'number of games for each nationality' count. Germans almost always get a game of course

Cheers
Martin

So, as a matter of interest, what is it specifically that you object to in the Crete game in May, a game local to you and very easy to get to. No tents, no camping, no travelling, no strict ammo limits (and set to be appropriate for the action in hand), kit can be borrowed and so on. Not getting at you Sly, just wondering where the line is being drawn?

i was refering to the games on the up and coming section

Ah, OK. The list of up and coming games does seem a bit short at the moment and not much for US in there at the moment.

Cheers
Martin

P.S. I've played quite a few games with 300 (or less) ammo limits for AEGs and I'm still usually dead long before I run out. Partly depends how hits/regen are run.

i dont think there is a 'yank hate' at all. I just think that as the scenes spread people have realised that actually having all of one side being the same nationality makes more 'historical' sense and looks visually better.

You feel more like you're in a war film when you look to your left and right and see a sea of M1 helmets and 1910 webbing etc... when that US assault has a few brit paras, a royal marine, an raf pilot and a russian in it it starts to feel a bit 'open day in fancy dress'.

British and American troops *rarely* fought within visual sight of each other and nearly never within a close mix as command and control would be impossible. (a notable exception is varsity where the US airborne accidentally dropped their men on the UK drop zones).

The thing is and i dont know why this is but a lot of those with US impressions seem very entrenched and defensive about playing anything else (not all but a fair few, i know a lot of the guys from dog co happily play partisans or use loan kit to play russian etc) and seem to be more interested in 'wearing their kit' than buying into the story/adventure/scenario.

Point in hand that at the two 'Arnhem' games in the last few years where the US were excluded (mainly because no US unit was within 100 miles of the battle) on both accounts players with US kit have got stroppy and demanded to be allowed to play as 'misdrops' (100 miles out of the way... erm ok) so they can do what they like but at the same time damage the immersion for the other players... conversely when we've had US only games like ST LO a load of the regular brit and russian lot bought US kit or borrowed it to play. Equally despite it being a 'us airborne game' a few players chose not to come because it was an 82nd division battle and they were only playing as 101st and wouldnt even pretend to be another division for the day!

So i dont think its 'yank bashing' i think its just some very intransient players being very vocal and expecting to be included in every game.

I know i'm currently working on some counts as US kit so that at the forthcoming Italy game Evo and I can portray and *allied* command group with a US CIC and a UK int corp advisor. Personally I'd rather fit in with the story than demand the story fits around me.