Nope, I'm right. It isn't authentic not to shoot with a rifle at close range. Its an airsoft safety issue.
I disagree with you chommers. If that were true then all british soldiers would be issued with SMGs or pistols. They weren't, neither were the japanese and although I don't know the details I doubt all Americans and Germans issued with rifles had pistols. But they were still expected to fight close up with rifles.
Yes once you get really close you used a bayonet charge, but we can't even do that for safety reasons.
But certainly a lot closer than the 25m engagement range we use for airsoft a rifle is still usable.
At Kohima there was a battle across a tennis court for several days. You're not going to make me believe that rifles weren't used there at sub 25m ranges.
Heh, you aren't grasping the point. You cannot use an airsoft pokey rifle under 25m - pure airsoft safety. No such restriction in real life, therefore not authentic.
I never said that it was authentic not to be able to use a rifle under 25m. I said it was "inauthentic", i.e. "not authentic". We appear to be arguing the same side of the same point.
Oh dear, I was merely correcting your incorrect statement about my point 3!
Anyhoo, whatever works for you (or anyone else) is fine. 
Heh... no I was actually correcting this statement with my statement. I wasn't about point 3, really.
So, the issue is one of safety which is entirely airsoft related, not authenticity.
What I'm saying is that the trade off between authenticity and safety has so far been done by continuing to use high powered rifles in the belief that it is essential that they out range AEGs in order to be more authentic, but at the cost of losing the ability to fire at sub 25m ranges, which is in itself an authenticity issue.
But what I propose is that in the rifleman role at least, the ability to out range SMGs is not as important as being able to use rifles at sub 25m ranges.
Propose all you want Rich, I dont have to take any notice of it so i'm not going to let it wind me up. Whats more authentic - being able to use a rifle at all distances, or being outranged by an AEG? Catch 22 there Yith.
When we were a Kingdom it was run by a King
When we were an Empire it was run by an Empress
Now we're a country we're run by a..........
Yes... I'm just saying that there is a choice. The choice is up to the individual.
Before Chommers suggested that there was a choice just before Ariel, it hadn't really been made clear that there was, nor were the advantages/disadvantages of the two made completely clear.
Whilst I would love everyone to agree with me I knew that there would always be some who love high powered rifles. Did I not say as much in my first post?
I'm just happy that quite a few of my colleagues in PBI (though not all) completely agree with my point of view. 
Before Chommers suggested that there was a choice just before Ariel, it hadn't really been made clear that there was, nor were the advantages/disadvantages of the two made completely clear.
Eh? Rubbish - why you even contributed to my thread! viewtopic.php?f=107&t=8096
You may not have realised it when you said it, but it was this statement that started the whole idea:
Make sure your commander is aware of the power of your rifle (under or over 350fps@0.2g - 1.14J) so that you can be given the right role and so used to advantage.
For me this twigged immediately... high power = sniper role. low power = rifleman role.
Whether you meant it that way or not, that's how I read it and I knew immediately which I wanted to do.
the sad thing is, if given a limit of 400 or 500 , some people will always see it as a target, not a limit.
Well to be honest, if you're running at 400fps, the 50fps loss to 350fps which then means you don't have an MED is well worth it. If you're running at 500fps then it's more of a reduction...
So yes, there is very little point in running at anything other than 350fps or 500fps on the dot...
Note however I have in the past run quite happily with my AEGs at 230fps getting plenty of kills and not feeling particularly out gunned.
This thread was interesting on the first two pages....... 
Hope its ok for me to join in (lurking from the bowels of the gma section) 
the bolties we rent out fire at 370ish and we allow them to be used at close range and can supply a spring 1911for point blank encounters if the player has no pistol as a back up of their own! Airsoft safty rule realy!
Also Chef has just done me a vsr/dboys k98 awesome bit of kit matey 
and is firing at 350fps for a rifleman, more than enough, especialy if you have a unit to work with.
We try to promote the idea that if you have a rifle firing over 370fps your a sniper otherwise iron sight rifleman.
As the kit isnt real and airsoft has its own perfomance levels we try to have a staggard fps rating to help guys pick a role and feel the benifit of the weapon they are using.
these are upto limits.
SMG 330fps
Support weapon (bar/FG42/Bren) 350fps - doesnt have to be deployed
MG - deployed (.30cal, MG42, vickers) 370fps
Bolt action rifleman - 370fps
Bolt actio sniper - 500fps
That kind of thing.
I think lower fps for roles adds to the experience and I know it works.
Heer Schmidt
Well, my Tommy has always done around 270fps and it suits me!
Mine did for a long time as well. When it got as low as about 210fps I decided an upgrade was in order... it was getting embarrassing. However it was still effective!
I'm not sure what it does now. As long as it's over 250fps and under the limit, I don't really care!
This thread was interesting on the first two pages.......
Agreed
Plus can't help but feel if we would be discussing this at all if it were a Tanaka No4 SMLE
MED = Airsoft safety , but at the end of the day who's ever died from a BB hit at 600FPS and 10m ?
I wouldn't want to see that happen but more people get hurt falling over at events , playing crazy golf etc /
This thread was interesting on the first two pages.......
Agreed
Plus can't help but feel if we would be discussing this at all if it were a Tanaka No4 SMLE
MED = Airsoft safety , but at the end of the day who's ever died from a BB hit at 600FPS and 10m ?
I wouldn't want to see that happen but more people get hurt falling over at events , playing crazy golf etc /
my point exactly...... there has been no oposition from the allied side... its only the tanaka owning germans who seem opposed to it. i wonder why?
Plus can't help but feel if we would be discussing this at all if it were a Tanaka No4 SMLE
Well that's a bullshit statement if ever I heard one.
My No4 has been running at 480fps (ish) for some time and will be getting the downgrade after my experiences on Sunday... The fact it was the SMLE that I do love that I was using is neither here nor there. I can also get that up to 450fps if I wanted and have used it at that power.
I was next to Ranj when he was shot by a Tanaka on Sunday at close range and that was a shock for me as much as him. It was definitely an accident and I hold no blame at all on anyone. I know Ranj doesn't. But the engagement was ruined because of what happened (we had to stop play), Ranj was in shock to a degree had to have medical attention (There was too much blood for me to do anything). The fault... Tanakas, again...
I know you all love 'em and I don't want to stop people using them. This discussion wasn't started about that single incident, it was based on my other experiences during the day... all of them positive.
Personally I'm not in this hobby to cause injury or pain.
I don't want this to be a discussion about high fps and safety. That's not what it's about, there are MED and they do work most of the time.
My argument is 100% based on authenticity of play and not wanting to use a backup pistol with my load out.
Which just goes to show how wobbly your argument is. Authenticity is a poor argument and power isn't necessarily the decider of weapon 'effectiveness'.
Stripping back to basics.
If one takes the 350fps - more correctly 1.14J - as the bench mark for acceptable power that is fine. And you say that no gun may be over that figure on the basis that it is authentic then that is clearly incorrect. If you say it puts everyone on an even footing that is also incorrect, since (say) a Thompson performs better than an MP40, power for power, even if ammunition laid down is the similar. A bolt action user will be raped by an SMG user, all things being equal. A DBoys K98 user will be raped by a Tanaka K98 (if it were possible to get them to equal power).
Therefore the option is offered for bolties to raise their power to 500fps max that allows them to work from beyond regular AEG range - the snag is they have one hand tied behind their back and can't engage at close distance.
Incredibly simple system. None of it has anything to do with authenticity (the only authentic thing with airsoft guns is they look pretty like the real thing) but only has to do with safety and airsoft gamesmanship.
The choice is up to the player. You can play all day with a pistol if you like (some did on Sunday), some use an M14/Garand at sub 350, some use bolties at sub 350 while others use them at higher power and work from further back. The mix works very well. Now, if PBI are to place fps restrictions on players and have everyone as sub 350fps 'riflemen' and a couple of 'sniper' that's cool and best of luck but can't say that its a level playing field or its authentic. It will make accidents less likely to happen of course. By teeth can be lost and skin broken with any power of gun.
Until the day comes when you turn up at a game and pick your rifle out of a long rack of exactly the same organiser-supplied rifles I would have though the simple, tried and tested system works well enough!
