No CW I know that, I was clarifying what gadge was saying, he knows nothing of our conversation today 
Aye i've no idea yo guys had been discussing similar lines
my query was... lets take for example
Sally who joins CIA and has a septum ring and red mohawk, she's got spot on kit and is bloody good lass , plays airsoft well and is friendly and fair/honest.
However she'd never get into a lot of re-enactment groups because she refuses to take her huge nose ring out or have a normal haircut. To make matter worse Sally wants to dress and game as a Royal Marine Commando
But shes allowed to be in AFRA under this scheme yeah?
I thin thats wicked if its the case but i was wondering what constitutes 'keen re-enactor'
I'm not trying to be an arse about this i'm genunly trying to sound out where it stands.
I know i've used an extreme example there but In real terms as a member of PBI who go more towards 're-enactor' detail i wanted to know where how it applies to some of our group.
"I think we are in rats' alley - Where the dead men lost their bones."
Well, my opinion would be that a "keen reenactor" would try their best to look realistic - hence my hair is never visible, and I take my earrings out (when I remember). Similarly, Helga does not ponce about with blonde flowing locks looking like the Timotay girl! 
You've got nothing to ein, zwei, drei, vier
can be arranged for a fee 
was thinking for the ostfront game of going gurlie 
Well, that's different, because (I forgot) Soviet wimmin' soldiers / partisans did exist.
You've got nothing to ein, zwei, drei, vier
Now theres a threat......
First and Only Airsoft!!
Helga/Dink if you are asking me, will AFRA be concerned about your trans-gender roles in CiA/airsoft games, then the answer I would give is No. Afra does not interfere with what you do.
If the question is , will AFRA endorse my trans-gender roles in a living history scenario, then I'd say No again. It was not normal for women to be at the front line in axis forces. Not all living history events are run with the open mind that we try to have within AFRA. They ask for historical accuracy, personaly I'd back that before your desire to dress as a man.
aka Stigroadie
AFRA
better by design
"Truth is a shining goddess, always veiled, always distant, never wholly approachable, but worthy of all the devotion of which the human spirit is capable. "
Gadge - we are affiliating with AFRA on our terms.
I've already pointed out we don't have a problem with oddities such as you describe either playing or being a member of PBI come to that.
Same for our AFRA scheme. Indeed, if you take the criteria for members of PBI then that pretty much describes the criteria of the scheme.
Heh, as indicated by Poacher's post. CiA are not sweeping away all that has gone before - we are creating a new niche with the help of AFRA. Main-streaming the genre and giving additional benefits to members. Thinking outside the box.
There are no catches or trapdoors, no tricks or deviancy - just an opportunity for WW2 game players. It's simple!
Right then.. this means i can get me dress out.? 
Oh did i say that out loud...bugger 
______________
Helga/Dink if you are asking me, will AFRA be concerned about your trans-gender roles in CiA/airsoft games, then the answer I would give is No. Afra does not interfere with what you do..
I used myself as the example, but thanks that what I thought
If the question is , will AFRA endorse my trans-gender roles in a living history scenario, then I'd say No again. It was not normal for women to be at the front line in axis forces. Not all living history events are run with the open mind that we try to have within AFRA. They ask for historical accuracy, personaly I'd back that before your desire to dress as a man.
I've no intention to pmsl I've way to much on with being a gurl and have never ever stated I want to reenact a man (BEFORE ANY RUMOUR STARTS) I'm just not of the right stature and I've commented on that often enough on discussions and proved with pictures I look gurl elsewhere. Think you've totally missed what I was asking.
It was much as gadge red haired sally, hypothetical., probs answered that no I said this.
CW its not the CiA bit thats confusing its the AFRA stance stating you have access to their events and can theoretically sign on a dotted line to attend some groups that strive that bit more may at some point want to attend a reenactment event, thus the question is being asked more of AFRA than of CiA, for comfirmation (noones critising) of what the stance is betwixt the two
Right off to sort me tea and will leave this alone, promise, not having a go, think its a great idea just more clarification and I'm asking on the behalf of other women that are either not yet on here, not posting on here, may in future want to, if I don't stand up and shout on their behalf to see what its about which of the men folk will (well passed gadge who it seems has seen things from the same perspective as me )
Dont forget, CiA will not be a member of AFRA, only an affiliate. There are no member groups, only affiliates.
The individual joins AFRA, Gadges friend Sally could easily be a member. It's up to the group she is in as to what she can or cant do.
aka Stigroadie
AFRA
better by design
"Truth is a shining goddess, always veiled, always distant, never wholly approachable, but worthy of all the devotion of which the human spirit is capable. "
Gadge, I'd be more concerned about Sally ripping her nose ring out on a twig!
Like Chommers has said, CiA make the rules, which you all know is fully inclusive to women portraying men and/or long hairs who tuck their hair up (becasue both of these groups of people regularly attend and play at our games without issue) and the same goes for anyone who has an alternative look to someone like plain ol' me (even though my hair used to be several feet long). Therefore people who fall into those categories will also be eligible and encouraged to join AFRA through the CiA affiliation.
If that's not clear enough then I don't know how to make it any clearer. 
HS
No thats fine although i felt a slight defensive tone there 
I was really inquiring as to what 'keen re-enactor' meant, when does someone not count as one and you'd have to say 'no sorry', so basically anything on the cia 'counts as ' list is valid?
I'm just looking for a definition of a very wooly phrase.
"I think we are in rats' alley - Where the dead men lost their bones."
I'm so glad we've spent the last few months putting in the effort so that members can "if they wish no need otherwise" can take advantage of PLI, personal insurance , that also allows them to qualify as reenactors, attending shows, and having a further defence against the VCR act.
Gadge - we as the CiA crew have the ability to let AFRA know if we feel a members kit is up to acceptable standard and not justthe minimum levels for CiA games. it's a subjective decision but one Paul feels comfortable with us taking .
We are not going to publish an exhaustive list of whats correct and whats not , to have it picked apart by others .
Bottom line is
1 We have formalised CiA as an offical group
2 You can join CiA for free after attending one of our events or being grandfathered in .
3 if you further wish to join AFRA as a reeancting airsfoter, and benefit frtom affiliated membership then you have an opportunity to do so through CiA
Frankly I don't care if people join CiA /AFRA or not, we have only done this to offer people something that they couldn't get before. I suspect reenactors will have no need of the AFRA membership as they will already have their own arrangments.
There is no intention to run exclusive events , and as ever our events are run on an open and inclusive line , which hopefully explains their popularity .
I
Gadge - we as the CiA crew have the ability to let AFRA know if we feel a members kit is up to acceptable standard and not justthe minimum levels for CiA games. it's a subjective decision but one Paul feels comfortable with us taking .
.
And there Guy lies my other worry... basically its up to you to decide if someones good enough rather than them having a clear set of goals or targets to achieve.
Personally i'm not a great fan of subjective memberships schemes....
Doesnt really affect me either way but not something i'm keen on, i prefer transparency myself.
"I think we are in rats' alley - Where the dead men lost their bones."
Personally i'm not a great fan of subjective memberships schemes....
Doesnt really affect me either way but not something i'm keen on, i prefer transparency myself.
Don't join then.
Next question anyone?
I dont need to Steve,read my post i said it doesnt matter to me.
My query is for other members of our group
Nice to see you so altruistic.
Right to edit this.
I'm simply playing devils advocate here and asking for a clarification, i'm also stating PERSONAL preference for clear published guidelines to know what criteria i'd have achieve.
As a bona fide re-enactor their is not shortage of groups i could join and achieve th e same result for me personally.
I ask these questions a s a co - runner of PBI.
Not to be an arse or have an argument, just to see what 'keen re-enactor' meant' if it means someone who isnt an re-enactors opinion then thats fine.
For the record i think this is a fantastic coup for CiA and wwii airsoft and i'm very much behind it, i just wanted to ask a few questions...
"I think we are in rats' alley - Where the dead men lost their bones."
My query is for other members of our group
I'm sure that those people you mention are perfectly capable of raising any points themselves....
When we were a Kingdom it was run by a King
When we were an Empire it was run by an Empress
Now we're a country we're run by a..........
My query is for other members of our group
Don't worry Gadge, we'll decide if PBI members kit is up to scratch by the same criteria we will use for everyone else. I'm sure given their standard of kit, they will be fine . 
AFRA Membership - It's there if people want it , if they don't , no dramas. Anyhoo as you've decided you're not interested then no probs, we'll keep the thread clear for those who do .
