In a thread where there was a discussion about the merits of different para smocks it was said by a relative newcomer that the site was giving out the wrong message to potential new recruits.
A number of us have become so hooked on this we’ve slowly morphed into something like re-enactors, I include myself in that especially as I’m going as a re-enactor to the Crich event in a week or so. Now there’s nothing wrong with that, the problem is when we start wrangling about obscure points of kit accuracy it sends out all the wrong signals to potential new players, so I started this thread to see if anyone had ideas of how we can reinforce the basic ethos of CiA which is about inclusiveness and getting people to actually play the games.
I’ll start the ball rolling with a few of my thoughts;
First I think it would be a good idea if we did some basic kit guides that were accessed from the same drop down box as the more detailed ones are, for example a basic US guide would be along the lines of, green trousers, green shirt/jacket, canvas shoulder bag and jeep cap, with a picture of someone dressed like that holding a M14, the text would explain the looks like and counts as rules and maybe give hints on cheap ways of enhancing or building on the basic look, we could also do basic British and German guides along the same lines. Now I know there’s a reference option that has all the details of the looks like and counts as rules but I think including this information in the same place as the more detailed guides will send out a more positive message.
Second idea is a thread called something like ‘My First WW2 Loadout’ where we can post pictures of our first attempts at WW2 loadouts, in my case it would be at the Arnhem game wearing Greek bd trousers, Belgium para smock and German gaiters, this would help to show that a number of us had started off with low spec/inaccurate kit.
Finally I know a lot of people are more than happy to loan kit out which is great but if that persons not at the game the kits not available, so how about having spare kit being held by the CiA organisers so that it would be available at all the games, I not sure how that would work, whether people would be prepared to donate spare kit that they no longer need/use or whether there could be a levy on each game, I’m thinking of a couple of pounds per head, which could then be used to purchase kit.
So what do you think, anyone got other suggestions?
basic kit guides are already there:
http://www.ww2airsoft.org.uk/pages/kit-german.html
http://www.ww2airsoft.org.uk/pages/kit-allies.html
http://www.ww2airsoft.org.uk/pages/kit-guns.html
Yes I know the point is that their location is not particularly intuative and it would be better if they were located in the same place as,and presented in a similar fashion to the more detailed guides along with pictures of people in the looks like kit.
I like people making more work for me!
This is a community forum - if you want basic kit photo guides then do it, no worries on that score...
As for us (CIA) hauling spare kit around, that's a no I'm afraid. It's already a huge ball ache organising games and storing stuff for free without adding to the burden. However, what you suggest is already in place - Gunman has large quantities of looks-like kit available to players at his games - and still no one uses it.
Fair comment, the purpose behind starting the thread was to come up with ideas for making the forum more new-comer friendly, that doesn't mean they're necessarily workable.
On the kit guides I'm happy to write some basic ones, the only problem is that I've not got any looks like kit for the photo's so if someone has any suitable pictures please send me copies and I can include them, I'll need ones for British, US and German.
No worries on putting ideas forward!
I'm happy to work with you on this Pete.
My Volkssturm loadout should be finished shortly for a budget of under £60, soup to nuts - AND looks the business - AND is 100% spot on (big up da Citizen Militia stylee) 
100% spot on
Stich nazi 
(see, we can't stop ourselves can we - it has to be right!!)
AAAGGGGHHH.... I've been turned to the Dark Side and didn't even know it..
while I agree its a great idea to encourage new players I think we need to take it all with a pinch of salt. With any game the look alike rules are always stated and theres plenty of threads around about doing loadouts on the cheap, etc. Sometimes there are threads like this where we're discussing the finer points of kit but I personally dont feel that this is the general tone of the whole board, or even of a decent section of the board.
Im all for making the guides more accessable and creating new ones bus at chomley says people have a habit of going out and buying the basic kit rather than renting look alike.
**edit**
after reading the thread I can see their point in a way but still feel personally the general tone of the board isnt that. However maybe my views a bit jaded, from knowing where all the guides are, knowing the various personailities on the boards, and getting things closeish but not perfect myself. If people feel this way then we do need to address it in some form.
This is the comment that sparked this thread,
I have to admit that the forum does give out the wrong message, some of my guys wanted to play Husky but think they need real kit, no matter what I say to them they think it has to be genuine, there is so much kit about even I am afraid to buy the wrong stuff
I think it's important that we listen to new people to the forum as they can give us an newbies perpective on the forum that us long term incumbants don't have.
Just to make it completely clear nothing I've written is intended as critisim of the CiA organisers, the CiA site/forum or the people who use it, I just think it's important that when comments like the one above are made that we take it on board and try to address the issue, I've had a great deal of pleasure from being involved in this hobby and I've met a load of great people 
in person and via a keyboard and I'd hate to think that others choose not to get involved and enjoy our friendly community, and play the games of course 
, because the forum gives out the 'wrong message'
Here endth todays lesson 
Your intention isn't misunderstood Pete (although taking the words of a mad Welshman is hardly an indication of a problem )
Heh, seriously though...
If you look at what TJ said
'but think they need real kit, no matter what I say to them they think it has to be genuine' - well, if a site owner can't convince them who can
'there is so much kit about even I am afraid to buy the wrong stuff' - all the more reason for accurate kit guides that what, where and how much!
But meh, you are right about the danger of complacency. I used to send a standard PM to every new forum user that stated what's what about kit. When I get a chunk of spare time I'll add a forum mod to do it automatically so that will save me forgetting/missing new user.
And I'll make sure that future CiA game advertising will contain clear reference to looks-like options.
Beyond that it's up to you lot!
re- my post about my south staffs kit,,,, something along the lines of, " giant fuzzy maroon beret made in india, crappy bin standard webbing sprayed krylon green so its all the same colour " and no-one taking the piss becouse i will improve it as money and time allows.
and my comment to that was.... "unblancoed webbing is better than using krylon"...
The problem with krylon is that it always goes on with quite a thick layer.
re- my post about my south staffs kit,,,, something along the lines of, " giant fuzzy maroon beret made in india, crappy bin standard webbing sprayed krylon green so its all the same colour " and no-one taking the piss becouse i will improve it as money and time allows.
I agree that's the reality of the forum, we don't unfairly critise or take the piss because, for whatever reason, you don't have a fully authentic loadout and I'm glad that you've joined in and found that out, my concern is that the perception that some people new to the forum have does not match that reality and unlike you may decide not to join.
Here's an idea, why not post a picture of yourself in one good uniform, then another in a look a like (if you have it?). I remember one of Gadge's in 49 Pattern as a commando, worked a treat and you can pick it up in any good old surplus store!
I know for a fact about getting kit cheap and look-a-like. I've just completed a post war Dutch issue 37 pattern uniform, BD, Trousers and Side Cap. I got the BD at the Reading Festival (where they always seem to have TONNES of old kit, I got an original RAMC cap too!) The trousers in Oz and the cap in Nijmegen...total cost = £20 Maximum! However it took me 4 years of very casual looking and accidents to get it!
I've got a few bits at home I could stick on and photo as Airborne, and a look-a-like too. I'd happily stick it on a thread Pete.
Jason
Why not just list the cheaper alternatives on the kit pictures? i.e. Have a good kit guide, but say (for example), "Belgian Denisions are a cheaper lookalike alternative".
You've got nothing to ein, zwei, drei, vier
That would work, however I know I much prefer looking at pictures of kit to get ideas. Simply saying this is a cheaper alternative isn't always that helpful, having a photo of it being worn compared to other kit would certianly answer some questions - but I know in written format this has already been done.
That would work, however I know I much prefer looking at pictures of kit to get ideas. Simply saying this is a cheaper alternative isn't always that helpful, having a photo of it being worn compared to other kit would certianly answer some questions - but I know in written format this has already been done.
That's pretty much my view on it, I think pictures of people in the look a like gear will give a better idea of what can be achieved for little outlay, hence my idea for basic kit guides, which incidentely I've already started to look at.
With regard to a picture thread showing peoples low cost/first loadouts again I'm planning to start one I just need to think of a suitable title, options so far are, 'My first WW2 Loadout' or 'Low Cost WW2 loadouts' if anyone has any comments or suggestions I'd be pleased to hear them.
Pete, how about "X kit on a budget" ? There's already a "Waffen SS kit on a budget" section, with full pics. 
You've got nothing to ein, zwei, drei, vier
