Looking to the future of WW2 airsoft

a cheapo No4 is probably the most essential brit gun.

Cheap PPSH for me, I hear the Chinese read these forums

I would buy 2............

Steve.D

Maybe the "only to be used for games set '44 & beyond" idea isn't so bad an idea but it then puts it at odds with people using AK's etc. as general as "lookalike" weapons as stated in the current CiA rules.

At that point we would drop the lookalike rules altogether as WW2 ones would be readily available.

But then not everyone has, or can afford to buy, a WW2 gun at short notice - or for one game.
By putting restrictions on the types of WW2 guns you can use depending on the year, you're totally at odds with the stated 'inclusive' ethos of the organisation. Where would it stop? 'Sorry pal, you can't use that No. 4 because this unit at the this time of the war was still issued with SMLEs.'

I don't have a problem, I have ww2 guns coming out of my ears, but I wouldn't like to see new players excluded because of something like that. Just my 2p.

Who you calling smelly I shall loathe to admit I agree with you, just because more are available, you have to be careful not to put people off, and as loans of ww2 weapons aren't available for hire, then you could end up putting people off there I've done it now I agreed with Kav the world as I know it has ended

You're both too tied up with the present.

I'm talking about the future...

A glorious future where all different types of WW2 airsoft guns are common place and inexpensive.

Erm not really

The future? You're too much of an optimist Yith. Never head of the European Firearms Directive which our beloved government plans to bring into action in 2009?. Or to be more precise the worrying phrase from the directive that states "Within two years from the date of entry into force of this Directive into national law, a report shall present the conclusions of a study of the issue of the placing on the market of replica firearms in order to determine whether the inclusion of such products in the present Directive is possible and desirable." And we all know what "EU Reports" lead to don't we?

Then there is the fact that HMG are looking at bringing in a blanket level of muzzle energy to define "lethality" instead of relying on case-by-case testing as is done at present - kiss goodbye to decent FPS Airsoft guns?

Ladies and gents, we have MUCH more to worry about than whether the Chinese are going to produce a bloody STEN gun...

**edit** I would just like to point out that I haven't turned into Oddball. I deal in fact, not fantasy.

what Kav and Helga are trying to say Yith is no matter how plentiful and cheap ww2 guns are there will always be new players coming along who wont have one at that point and may not be able to afford one before the game they plan to attend. Thus the look alike rules will always be needed unless you really do want to allienate possible new players.

Heh... Yup... As usual the hobby is under threat.

It always is.

Right from when I started playing... and probably before then, though I didn't pay attention until I actually started playing.

2009 you say? With any luck the current glorious government will not be in power by then.

Well we can hope. I know I won't be voting for them... for what good that'll do.

Rhys, if we get to the stage I'm talking about there will be room for smaller games with more strict rules as well as more open games. It'll be personal choice as which people prefer, but if enough new blood joins in then there will be enough players to keep both going.

We've already seen that the lookalike rules could in fact be tightened... Hardly anyone wears flecktarn anymore!

As much as I'd like a MP44 I agree that it would be far better to see a few more cheap bolts first. I don't think we'd have to worry about fields full of MP44 weilding germans even if there was a chinese version released. I have faith in the ww2 airsoft community to keep the balance of realism as it is.

"Within two years from the date of entry into force of this Directive into national law, a report shall present the conclusions of a study of the issue of the placing on the market of replica firearms in order to determine whether the inclusion of such products in the present Directive is possible and desirable."

So am I reading this correctly? This directive is the governments back up to justify the removal of all RIFs from the market once they realise the VCRB has failed to do anything?

Then there is the fact that HMG are looking at bringing in a blanket level of muzzle energy to define "lethality" instead of relying on case-by-case testing as is done at present - kiss goodbye to decent FPS Airsoft guns?

The testing for this will no doubt be done using a dart I assume, leaving us with a muzzle energy of 0.1J to play with. Or am I being too sceptical of our beloved government?
Anyway where oddball? I'm sure he's got something to say on the matter.

Anyway where oddball? I'm sure he's got something to say on the matter.

probably, but can we at least keep it in relevance to airsoft, as opposed to air powered engines, secret governments and other fairytale drivel?

Interesting debate really.

I think we've all proved we can do *big* games for wwii airsoft, now i'd like to see some really authentic ones as well, not saying there isnt room for both, i just fancy seeing if the latter is possible now the former has been made possible.

If you take battle of the bulge as being a medium sized game where the full counts as rules came into play and in a few cases were used.

The came Arnhem where the 'realism' was upped by having tightly themed sides but we still had a fair ammount of counts as.

Churchills Revenge was probably the closest we've had to a full on accurate kit weekend so far but had 'all inclusive' sides.

Wotan again upped the kit scales but again had an allied 'combined battlegroup'

Hurtgen equally was very good but again was all axis vs all allies.

I think we are i a position to have some well themed battles, I'd liek to see a FJ vs US infantry 'battle of the hedgerows' at some point in the future, or a GD vs partisans battle.

I realsie its not everyones cup of tea nor am i trying to impose that upon anyone but i'd like to see this hobby get big enough where we can have games that are almost like a film set!

I agree with you gadge. I think the sentiment expressed which triggered the debate was a blanket tightening of CiA rules. I was lucky enough when I joined the organisation to be able to buy all of my kit and weapons at the same time and slot straight in, as it were, but not everyone can or will do that.
PBI has gone a different way, and while that's admirable to a point, I'm glad Doughboys didn't follow the same strict path in the end. Horses for courses, I guess.

I never knew why you lot didnt do 101st airborne as you could have used all your kit n the same unit then, just the odd new badge.

Your paras had your jump kit and your glider troops wore standard infantry kit... both uniforms, one identity, doddle.

We've found with PBI that

a ) everyone knows whats needed no faffing no arguing
b ) things are getting done
c ) we've set goals to go for
d ) Its possible to make team kit for the group (no2 commando badges etc)

I'd guess that's a question for further down the line. My understanding is we've had a lot of brand new members, and indeed the group is in its infancy, so our first priority is building it up before a course is either decided for the group, or a discussion takes place among the members.
Of course I could be talking a load of bollocks, as I no longer have a part within the group decision-making, so you'd have to ask webby or Rhys.

EDIT: Top fact about the one-oh-scum. I didn't know that. Come to think of it, that would've solved a lot of problems!

Yep it was a massive bone of contention in the 82nd & 101st, the glider troops had the same risks but got less pay and line inf equipment and resented the paras status and corcoran boots.

To allieviate this Mj.Gen Ridgeway passed an order saying any officer or man who undertook one jump could wear the jump boots and para badge.

To counter this the para companies issued an order saying that any of their men making a single glider landing was authorised to wear shoes and leggings!

But its the perfect unit to do to include everyone, its also incredibly iconic and fought nearly everywhere.

I'm starting to really enjoy this thread. Lots of interesting posts. Sod all to do with the OP, but thats t'internet for ya!

So, my 2p on the subject.

Do I want "really accurate". Well, no. That would mean such silly things as the vast majority of Brit and German troops having to carry a bolt-action, and the majority of Yanks carrying a Garand - which immediately reduces how "inclusive" WW2 Airsoft is.

I think I agree 100% with Kav when he posted "I was lucky enough when I joined the organisation to be able to buy all of my kit and weapons at the same time and slot straight in, as it were, but not everyone can or will do that"

To allow WW2 Airsoft to grow, we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that a large proportion of players cant afford to go out and blow 400 quid on a loadout and shooter to go with it.

I'd like to try "really accurate"... just to see if its possible.

Have both sides having the correct types and quantity of weaponry and see if it makes a difference, or is even practical in airsoft.

We've gone part way there with the CiA lookalike rules... but not the whole hog!

However I also like to play with the flexibility we have now...

Having a section of brits with mostly No4s would be very possible if an airsoft one was produced at a price similar to the chinese Kar98...