Spoiled for choice

Events are being cancelled because not enough people are booking on. This was never the case when there were fewer games. Although there were more people in the scene back then.

My conclusion is that there are too many games. Regardless of style, people have to choose what to go for and thus can't do everything.

My feeling is the market is saturated and it's a market that's favouring player choice. Players are choosing the type of event they want to book (which at the moment seems to be urban/niche site events) and that means some events will fail to get the numbers and will have to cancel.

I'm not saying choice is a bad thing, but if you want to know why events have failed, it's because there's too many for such a small number of players to fill. Ergo, there are too many events for the market...whichever way you look at it.

It isn't for want of potential players (there are tons of them), it is for want of players who will put themselves out and book on a game. I've never understood why players spend hundreds amassing uniforms and guns yet find excuses not to play. Yeah, everyone can find an excuse not to play but we are short of people who find excuses to play! Time was, not so long ago, when players eagerly travelled the length and breadth of the country to get a WW2 fix. And games booked out within a couple of days of an announcement (and a barrage of complaints from those that missed out!).

Organisers of games put themselves to an enormous amount of time and effort (and expense) to get games sorted. The reward is seeing 30, 40, 50 mates having a great weekend's entertainment. Without that reward who is going to bother?

So Headshot is right, sadly. If there are too many games and players are picking and choosing it makes game viability a real gamble. We found out years ago that the only was to be sure of a game going ahead was to charge up front. Sure, some players might have to drop out at the last minute, that's tough, but at least that didn't mean the cancelling of an event or organisers being hundreds of pounds out of pocket.

Hey ho. Ultimately, market forces will dictate the supply of games. If there are four games next year and you have strict personal rules of game attendance (day/weekend, distance, cost, factions, politics, game style blah blah) then you may very well find that you will be only wearing your WW2 uniforms to your local open days. Right back to where we were in 2004!

Hey ho. Ultimately, market forces will dictate the supply of games. If there are four games next year and you have strict personal rules of game attendance (day/weekend, distance, cost, factions, politics, game style blah blah) then you may very well find that you will be only wearing your WW2 uniforms to your local open days. Right back to where we were in 2004!

This. And if anyone starts to moan about it when it happens, they can fuck right off. You should have supported the organisers when you had the chance.

Hey ho. Ultimately, market forces will dictate the supply of games. If there are four games next year and you have strict personal rules of game attendance (day/weekend, distance, cost, factions, politics, game style blah blah) then you may very well find that you will be only wearing your WW2 uniforms to your local open days. Right back to where we were in 2004!

This. And if anyone starts to moan about it when it happens, they can feck right off. You should have supported the organisers when you had the chance.

The best posts I've seen on here in ages, I agree 100%.

Hey ho. Ultimately, market forces will dictate the supply of games. If there are four games next year and you have strict personal rules of game attendance (day/weekend, distance, cost, factions, politics, game style blah blah) then you may very well find that you will be only wearing your WW2 uniforms to your local open days. Right back to where we were in 2004!

This. And if anyone starts to moan about it when it happens, they can feck right off. You should have supported the organisers when you had the chance.

The best posts I've seen on here in ages, I agree 100%.

Yup.

Hey ho. Ultimately, market forces will dictate the supply of games. If there are four games next year and you have strict personal rules of game attendance (day/weekend, distance, cost, factions, politics, game style blah blah) then you may very well find that you will be only wearing your WW2 uniforms to your local open days. Right back to where we were in 2004!

This. And if anyone starts to moan about it when it happens, they can feck right off. You should have supported the organisers when you had the chance.

The best posts I've seen on here in ages, I agree 100%.

Good point well made.

And to reply to Gavin's original point and idea I will be posting deadline info for numbers up so everyone can know what score is.

There is the possibility of course that you are not offering games that the greater number of players want to be involved in?
If they dont like the scenario or dont like the rules then they wont sign up.
I enjoy the rifle only, limited ammo stuff but does everyone?
I have a feeling that like re-enactors many airsofters want to charge about saving the day.

Given the game mix (styles, scenarios and locations) and the fact that 'charging about saving the day' games are being cancelled I'd say that isn't the case.

If I can make a distinction - commercial run games should appeal the either the 'lowest common denominator' (bums on seats, let's make some money) or 'broad appeal' (bums on seats, let's make some money). This isn't a criticism, I've long advocated that this is the natural home for general appeal games. Player run games can only ever be games the organiser's want to play - you would be nuts to organise an event that you didn't want to attend, given the time and effort involved.

And, to be fair to us, we were on track to make our rather niche event perfectly viable before we had the rug pulled from under us by the site owners.

Yes, I've said all along that I would never organise a game just to get numbers. If the concept doesn't appeal to the organisers, why run it in the first place? For me, the WW2 "scene" has taken a step or two backwards, with people more interested in open day style play than in actually trying to participate in a WW2 experience. Firing off thousands of rounds was not how they did it in WW2, yet people moan about lack of trigger time in WW2 games.

Could still be the wrong games even if my idea of what was wrong missed the target.
And a double dip recession?

I think there is a myth that people came to WWII because they were fed up of open day and wanted more. The original CiA organisers may have, but for the player base it's more likely that they wanted to do WWII and the only option was to go to games that asked more of them, they then like them (because they is better aint they).

There is a reason most open days run like, well, open days: because it is what people want. I have no doubt that certain games will maintain a booking level and be able to run, they are just games I have no interest in and if these are all that remain I will find little consolation that free market forces dictated it.

Well, it's safe to say the players base has changed dramatically, and along with that the taste in game style, so Poacher may have a point.

The thing is, I'd actually like to run games like we did in the past and get people to change their minds about the sorts of games they like. Try something new, and bloody love it!

Oh, and yes, the double-dip obv. Though once the latest figures have been revised, it might even be a triple-dip!

Firing off thousands of rounds was not how they did it in WW2,

First, I know what you mean by that and I dont disagree. But;
It did take thousands of rounds to kill one man in WW2 though. The figures are hard to pin down and often fail to vector in the kills by artillery.
The 8th Air force calculated it took 12,500 rounds to down one enemy fighter. I dont think thats such a bad ratio.
Obviously these were not all expended at one go at one man or aircraft.

Obviously these were not all expended at one go at one man or aircraft.

That's my point exactly. Not sure how you mentioning the air war is relevant to what we do though, as all WW2 games have, do and, always will relate to small scale ground battles.

It was the only 'official' figure I could find for rounds expended.

For me it's not the stlye of game play thats the issue, I like the blast fests like on open days and I enjoy times when I hardly fire a shot.

My main issues is transport and money. Either I've got the money but can't get there or I can get there I just can't pay for it till it's to late. As no dout many of you have notice I'll ask for lifts to events alot but I won't book that event inless I know I can get there.

I think there is a myth that people came to WWII because they were fed up of open day and wanted more.

Not a myth, tis true. Everyone that started off in, say, the first three games had been open dayers, mostly playing in WW2 gear at open days too. They were fed up of open days and did want more!
But yes, true to say, there are all sorts in the mix now - some from trad reenactment, some have never even been to an open day, some are happy to mix open days and WW2 games and so on.

A recession does concentrate the mind and must make a difference but really it is a question of priorities - are you sitting at home with no heating, eat bread and water, haven't touched a drop of alcohol in three years and had to sell all of your WW2 kit to buy clothes for the kids? Nah. The early days of WW2 airsoft was kept going by a phalanx of motivated players. Now, maybe because it isn't 'new' any more, perhaps people just take it for granted and there is a bit more of a 'meh' attitude?

And I do take Poacher's point that perhaps 'popular' WW2 gaming has been neglected with even commercial players getting more and more restrictive on kit, guns and ammo - by definition, restrictions limit player numbers. (Just don't expect me to attend!)

Is anyone saying on here that they want "blat fests"? In my personal opinion no. The amount of trigger time a player expects or wants is down to the indvidual. After picking up a BAR it was a joy to have some fire power, after only having 300rds at previous events to use. laying down fire while defending or keeping some germans pinned while attacking was great fun, while using the bipod (which was often thrown away!) when i could. But with great power comes great responsibility and with the extra ammo aloud to be carried you have to use a support gun in the "Not a cock" way. And use it like it was attended and not as a SMG with 1000's of rounds.

But on the flip side I have had my Garand finished for about 9 months now. (at a guess?) And havent used it in anger yet and the fact that i Only have about 12 rounds before i need to reload gives me a cheap thrill and fielding it in a rifle dominated game would make me not feel out gunned .. useless .. etc so I wouldnt mind giving rifles (or 75%+ rifles) game a go. How ever we stumble upon another problem, I have a rifle but not everyone else does. So how many people that attend WW2 events have a rifle? At a guess quite a few yanks may of picked up the ICS garand but who else has them? You could instantly cut out 80% of the population on the forum. Which could lead to a game not getting the required numbers.

After rambling on I have just had a thought. (rare i know) If you wanted to put on a certain game which is a little different and all the players turn up 100% in the zone and on board with the style of day, does it matter what kit they have or dont have? Would you want 10 guys in 50-75% complete kit fully on board or 10 guys who have all the kit but dont get the event you are putting on?

Travel, Money, Kit restrictions, Work also all come into the mix. Shame I wasn't around when the WW2 airsoft scene first took off, as I was oblivious it excisted while attending open days in period kit.

Stu

I'll once again state this. CiA has never run a game where you couldn't attend if you didn't have the 'correct' kit. We have ALWAYS allowed looks-like kit and guns and have regularly allowed civilian roles too.

The problem here is people just not attending at all. It is not because they don't have the right kit or gun.