The merits and demerits of full face masks - a debate

This was brough to attention in one of the events section and was rightly said it wasn't a place to discuss the matter

I'm curious to see what peoples opiniouns are. Do face masks have a place in WW2 airsoft?

Personaly I would agree that the spoil the look of whatever impression however I vaule my teeth too much to tempt fate by going out on the field without my half mask.
Some have said about getting a gum shield or one of those half masks that look like someones lower half of the face. Now I brough a cheap gum shield of ebay that you mold yourself and I find that rather uncomfortable
and to buy another half mask seem to be a waste of money as well as not really liking them.

Look forward to what people think on this matter
JD

I had to cut a bit extra off my gumshield to make it fit.

Also I actually don't use it that much. It stays in my mouth when it's needed, no more.

I was unsure, on reading the statement, whether Chomley is proposing they be banned 'across the board' or just 'at an organiser's discretion'...I will get down to it and present one reason in support of the statement, that full-face masks should be banned, alongside those already listed by Chomely, which can apply to whichever Chomley means of the two

There two ways the word airsoft can be used. The first is as a definition of a hobby or past time that is attended by players around the country on weekends. They are playing Airsoft.
The second is as definition of an item used to define how it functions, an airsoft gun. Though the first definition requires the use of the second definition, it does not mean that the second definition can only be used when undertaking the first.
What we do here, in WW2 Airsoft – or any ‘historical airsoft’, ‘filmsim’, ‘battle enactments’ (or whatever else we have been unable to decide works as a name) is not the same as what occurs throughout the country on weekends, it simply uses the weapons of this pursuit as a combat resolution system, decide ‘who won’ in any given contest.
The ‘full face mask’ is a part of this weekend culture, it protects the face from the volumes of bb traffic that are flung at it allowing the players to do as they will without fear of getting their face hurt. One wears such a mask if one is in expectation of receiving such a volume – or strength – of fire. If one expects to fairly receive such treatment during an activity, there is an increased likelihood that one would consider giving such treatment equally fair.

It is a truth universally understood – and if one does not agree with this truth then we may as well be speaking of polar bears and skateboards in as much as we are not on the same topic – that this type of play, this open day engagement, is not what one wants from or in this hobby. Consequently allowing things, which are part of this weekend culture, but not necessarily part of this combat resolution system, into this hobby, imparts an acceptance of those elements of the open-day culture that they represent.

So firstly there is a danger that, on allowing full face masks at events there will be more likely present players who are playing a game different to the one we are – albeit with the same weapons - to the detriment of that game.

Secondly, allowing full-face masks at an event legitimises this other form of game, increasing the chance of it being considered part of what we do, and by consequence redefining what we do, to the detriment of the hobby.

I'm sorry but I have to disagree there Chomley. Simply put, I wouldn't attend any sort of airsoft event that would not allow me to wear my lower face mesh.

I fully understand the desire for deeper immersion, it was one of the reasons I started coming to these events, but even for that I can't risk either losing my teeth of large welts on my cheeks.

For a start, if I had a tooth put out I wouldn't be able to afford to get the dental work to fix it. Secondly, at my place of work I am constantly dealing with members of the public and it would be very unprofessional of me to be turning up to work looking like I'd been pelted by very small stones. Last year I attended a normal open day and accidentally left my face mesh at home, I decided it would be all right and played anyway. I came away with a large, bleeding welt on my cheek thinking nothing of it. When I arrived at work the next day I was almost immediately sent home by my boss and spent the next two days at home not getting paid until it had healed enough that I was allowed back to work. I can't run the risk of this happening again as a) I need the money and b) I would probably lose my job.

As for gum shields, I wouldn't trust them. While I'm sure many of you have used them and had your teeth survive just fine I watched a Dr Airsoft video where he tested a few and I didn't like the look of the results. While the material they were using isn't as hard as enamel, the way the moulds disintegrated underneath the guards convinced me not to try it with the real things (though the gum shield made by the dentist performed quite well).

Finally, I think it's funny you mention that masks inhibit speech and then suggest a gum shield as a solution. When I used to play rugby we would have to take them out to talk properly to each other, doubly for the lads that wore the type that covered both their upper and lower teeth. While the paintball style masks do make people a bit more difficult to understand, I've never had any complaints about people not understanding me whilst wearing my lower mesh, it's open enough that I only need to make sure I speak a little clearer than usual (and try to avoid rolling everything together in my usual Geordie way) everything is fine.

I personally would not attend an event where I couldn't use a lower mesh mask as I have seen far too many teeth get shot out and for a second, less common reason.

These were at open days, but they were also woodland, and two of the times it wasn't even in a firefight. Taking a spit laiden gumshield in and out and storing it, then putting it back in again throughout a day wouldn't appeal to me (bit grim). Even removing the openday mentality entirely, the nature of using airsoft weapons is that a stray BB can come your way without you being prepared. Whether you are firing 20 rounds a day or 2000, you are still firing a small high velocity pellet at somebody. The chances may be greatly reduced but not eliminated.

I have ehlers danlos syndrome type 3. Therefore my skin does not heal very well, I try to cover up as best as possible, but still have scars all over my body for nasty airsoft shots (even through layers of clothes). I enjoy airsoft and I am finding ww2 airsoft very much to my liking, so I put up with this as one of lifes little woes. However, I do not wish to have pothole scars on my face, as I would not heal properly. It's also the reason I have things like my ankle injury despite being a humbled age of 24. I have the condition mildly, my sister uses a wheelchair.

So there could be a number of reasons people choose to wear a mask, it does not immediately single them out as a player who is going to ruin the day. A lower mesh mask allows you to be heard clearly and keeps your teeth safe. They should be left as a personal choice, I have nothing against people who decided not wear one.

On an interesting note, I have seen from event photos that the people who wear sand coloured lower mesh masks seem to appear to be less visibly wearing one from a distance. Perhaps because they are more a skin tone colour, I am picking one up to experiment with.

In France they banned full face masks from their ww2 games. And then they are pointing to the full face rubber things. Often referred to as 'Dark Vader masks' by them.

If you do your utter best to create a good mask which does not look like a mask, from say 1 or 2 meter distance, nobody will reject those kind of masks. Pictures of those kind of masks are already shown here in an other thread.

But, this is the one I am talking about;
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The mask is made from a cheap plastic full face mask, sold for $ 13,50 @ http://www.ebairsoft.com/koei-face-plas ... -2016.html

Personally I don`t like full face masks in any themed historical airsoft, the whole point of which is to maintain a 'feel' for that period. It`s almost akin to someone turning up with a totally innapropriate uniform or weapon, as it takes away the 'reality' of the situation.
I`ve sustained a few hits on my lips before, which provide a cushion against the teeth, but I don`t wander around with my mouth open ( a habit gained from years of riding motorcycles....nobody wants to swallow an insect at 60mph ). I can understand why people wear them for open days, as the continuous high rates of fire involved provide more chance of copping a round in the mouth/face etc.
WW2 games tend to be slightly less risky perhaps due to the use of locaps, and the more mature ages of its participants, who tend to take a more sensible approach to FPS and MEDs.
Essentially I think it`s down to how 'in depth' an event is going to be as there are several levels of historical airsoft, from filmsim to an almost purely living history type. Ultimately I think it has to be a decision left to individual event organisers.

I dont think that banning masks is a good idea.
I mean what would be the outcome if someone out there who substain a mouth injury goes to one of these ambulance chasing accident lawyer firms? what i am saying is if you put a ban in place there is no room for someone claiming dental costs for example. So therefore would everyone attending an event have to sign some sort of waiver to this eventuality? just looking at it from the Health and Safety angle guys.
I agree with a lot both sides of this argument have come up with. I myself have never worn a facemask i just use the scarf/snood/keep your gob shut method. Maybe as Arthur shown the more realistic facemasks is an opton.
But the last point is you might have to give everyone their own personal choice with up to what risk they want to take for themselves.

Good stuff so far chaps!

(H&S - all sites require you to wear a full face mask but if you opt not to then you take the risk of injury upon yourself, this is standard practice and should be explained in safety briefs and is perhaps written on the disclaimer everyone signs. Therefore, no difference between a 'banned face mask' game or the status quo - either way they won't pay out! I'd be interested to know if any site owner has had to deal with any injury claim that went to insurance.)

I lost my gum shield years ago and I have prompted myself to purchase one (actually two - one normal one and one that protects upper and lower teeth, by way of a cheap experiment).

Just a quick side note though CW as its a recommendation of the site that facemasks be used isnt banning them for a game causing an issue and might make some owners shy away from having events at thier site as its easier on them just not to run any risk?

The risk from not wearing a full face mask is borne by the player, not the site, as you absolve the site from responsibility. So, technically, the more players that wear full face masks the more risk of being sued the site carries (out weighed by the zero teeth injuries as full face mask is used!) - net effect to site owner is... it makes no odds either way. By my reckoning.

I don't like the idea of masks, and from experience I can say I really hate gum shields ,they are a pain in the ar*e and no one can understand a word you are saying when wearing them ...
However I really do appreciate the merits of wearing them..
For those of you that are purists and spout on about how ugly they look.. If you have ever forked out £500 for a cap, crown or veneer and spent hours in the dentists chair, please don't ever think it won't happen to you.. It does and it really changes your perspective on how it may ruin the realistic feeling of your hobby..
I will understand completely if I don't get invited to many more games but I do feel very strongly about any forum members that may want to protect their teeth without being chastised..

Wladek hit the nail on the head. There's quite a difference between the risk of getting hit in the lower face at an open day versus an organised ww2 event.

I used to wear a full face mask but the combination of steaming goggles, reduced visibility, interference with headgear and muffling my voice I wasn't a fan. Then I started playing at a WW2 site and switched to goggles. A combination of more trustworthy players that keep to a minimum engagement distance, strict adherence to fps limits and good marshalling meant that any face hits were from a safe distance. The only injury I've had on site is a busted fingernail diving for an objective. Compare that to the broken finger, welts and actual bb scars I picked up at open days.

Bottom line is nobody should be taking hits that can cause that sort of damage at a properly run game, yes accidents can happen but as long as players know to err on the side of caution with engagement distances and headshots then an injury should be a rare thing.

As for open days, better safe than sorry. If a guy in adidas trainers, blue jeans and a baseball hat next to you doesn't mess up your ww2 impression then a face mask shouldn't be an issue.

Don't wear a mask. Keep my mouth shut when under fire. Job done.

The only problems I have ever had is at an open day where I had one tooth cracked in half. Generally I trust the WW2 players to be sensible and generally they aim for body shots.

Open days, and I admit I am relatively new to the hobby compared to many here, do seem to be about fps and maximum rate of fire. Both of which are conducive to getting people hurt.

Ok, I've lost a tooth to it, but I would rather be at a WW2 game without face masks and aim for the 'feel' and hopefully be safe in the knowledge that you aren't going to get a close range hi-cap in the face as the people doing this aren't going to be up for that kind of behaviour. Yes it is an opt out situation but I have just found the full face masks looking silly...

However for people like Owen who I elieve does have a medical reason, I think that does have weight. I wouldn't like to exclude him for those reasons.

I may be the unluckiest ww2 airsoft player around.
Recently at the corridor of death game, I got hit on the top lip(covering my teeth) twice in the first hour.. It was a very well run game but hits like this do happen..
Without a gum shield for that split second when you scream hit or arhhhh, It happens .

Don't wear a mask. Keep my mouth shut when under fire. Job done.

This too helps!!!!!

I have learned this the hard way! I will never smile in airsoft again!

as has been stated already there is a spectrum of games held under the ww2 airsoft banner and a place for all i hope.my personal preference is no mask but if things get close then a scrim scarf over my mouth,but i dont have a prejudice against a well made half or full mask that is made to look like a real face and distinctly painted to look unique from other identical masks,its all about putting in the extra effort needed to give a good effect.sometimes im forced to wear mesh goggles because i have a condition called hyper-hydro-sis meaning i sweat profusely and cannot wear clear shooting glasses all the time so i got slimline mesh goggles, painted the frames and mesh to flesh and eye shades,its quite effective if a little odd because the eyes don't move,its the best i could do and although not as drastic as a mask it gives me sympathy for mask wearers .

Maybe instead of going on immersive full on weekends we should be running ventriloquist weekends so we can all keep our mouths shut all of the time and still communicate..
Also If I knew the second before I was under fire that I was going to be under fire, I wouldn't have to keep my mouth shut.. I would just keep my head down..