Hallo alles Landsers

If you're buying kit for varisty your first stuff should be field grey tunic and trousers and a side cap or m43 cap, i recomend 'spearhead'/barry lindon on ebay for good stuff at a fair price.

What Gadge says M36 tunic and trews, and a field cap or side cap (bevo cap badge with eagle again heer). Insignia is a breast eagle (heer) field green shoulderboards, and some collar tabs, think its white waffenfarbe for grunt. No rank required as it would be ignored if you were not enough indians and too many cheifs as is Also need Jackboots or boots and gaiters.

Set of Y straps, gott mit uns buckle for black belt, breadbag and depending what weapon you're using mag pouches.

Welcome, Peppered - good to have you aboard.

gott mit uns buckle

'Ah shit, I never noticed before...'

Its ok we brits have mittens too....

Hi, thanks for the replies. I am having a few kit problems but the feldgrau uniform has arrived. No eagle though so that needs sourcing and I ned to check the shoulder boards are OK. Helmet looks ok but the belt and pouches are all brown, I didn't realise it had to be black. I couldn't source G43 pouches in black easily. I can recolour them if needs be I think. I am trying to build a nearly G43 from an M14 by cutting down mags and changing the barrel end, top cover and sights to look like the correct silhouette, might even make a wood stock in the near future.

I am having real problems getting the Heer buckle and could do with meeting some other Landsers to check other details so hopefully we can hijack the PBI event as the other side?

Hi Peppered - feel free to post pics of your kit, if you need guidance on anything. I got some great black G43 pouches from Epic Militaria. They also do the buckles too. Yes, belt order should be black not brown - however, I'm sure some guys doing Fallschirmjager would be interested in buying your brown belt off you.

Right, dumb kit questions. Other than the chest eagle, what insignia or way of wearing kit is required? I am not bothered about going Gross Deutchland unless that is the majority and I want to stay Heer rather than Waffen SS. I guess I am after fine detail advice so if we turn up as a group we look more like a unit, like the PBI are doing but using South Staffs as their reference. Is there a general second line heer unit that would do?

I am asking this as the Ostfront game suggests Waffen SS (were there Heer there, like GD?) but the PBI suggests PanzerGrenadier Heer? I thought Panzer units wore black or is that only heavy armour rather than motorized infantry?

Very confused at the moment when all I really need to know is do I need eagles on my helmet or not!

Why haven't more Landsers signed up for the PBI game yet?

I`m not too knowledgeable on Heer but I`d say don`t worry about insignia on your helmet (ooer missus ) as they discontinued it mid war I think. It was only armour crews who wore black, grenadiers wore the normal field grey. Other than collar tabs and the correct colour shoulder boards its up to you what bling you add.
I`m a bit cheesed off as someone had a heer repro uniform on fleabay starting bid £20 complete with sidecap, I was watching it but didn`t bid and the seller withdrew it about 6 hours before the finish. I also missed an A frame, I bid £3 but was doing something else at the finish time and it went for £6.54. Thought I was up for the Landser group with that lot but I`ll have to start browsing again

No you don't need to put an eagle on your helmet well not unless you're into that sort of thing and can find a willing one

Too late, I ditched the square potty and tried a ww1 PickelHaube. the eagle stayed on this time but it's gone all quiet and limp.

What do I need to do next to get an authentic German impression?

Don,t worry so much Peppered, you seem to have most of the kit necessary. As long as we are in feild grays, that is enough. The most important thing is that we can kick the Staffordshires arses

If you are short of a few items let us know, and I am sure collectively we can lend you any bits you need.

I understand your comments on uniformity but don't think it is manageble for this one. We will all look like German Heer soldiers. (that's the point I think?)

Right, dumb kit questions. Other than the chest eagle, what insignia or way of wearing kit is required? I am not bothered about going Gross Deutchland unless that is the majority and I want to stay Heer rather than Waffen SS. I guess I am after fine detail advice so if we turn up as a group we look more like a unit, like the PBI are doing but using South Staffs as their reference. Is there a general second line heer unit that would do?

I am asking this as the Ostfront game suggests Waffen SS (were there Heer there, like GD?) but the PBI suggests PanzerGrenadier Heer? I thought Panzer units wore black or is that only heavy armour rather than motorized infantry?

Very confused at the moment when all I really need to know is do I need eagles on my helmet or not!

Why haven't more Landsers signed up for the PBI game yet?

Hope this helps...

(first of all the South Staff we're *anything but* second line... a regular Infantry regiment specially selected for both airborne and chindit jungle training with one of the finest records of battle honours and vcs in the British Army... so dont think a second line unit will be good enough to stop us harummph)

As for Heer units, the vast majority from Elite units to Volksturm wore no exclusive markings, the GD were effectively the 'guards' of the heer initially recruited from the most promising recruits from across the country, hence the name 'greater germany' the GD fought almost *exclusively* on the eastern front and had no late war action in western europe (not that that matters for airsoft games) and so are perfect foran ostfront game

Dont get too worried by the terms 'panzer' and 'grenadier'

Panzer grenadiers means armoured infantry (i.e. trained to fight alongside tanks and often with APCS of their own or on the back of tanks) they wore normal infantry kit, only the panzer crews wore black to stop their uniforms getting visibly oil stained (although this was discontinued later when they realised how tactically rubbish black is for crews)

grenadier was initially used to refer to more elite units but by mid war hitler had *all* infantry named grenadiers or jagers to boost morale regardless of ability.

Similarly 'volksgrenadier' were new units formed up from soldiers previously in rear line work or from new recruits previously in war dependant reserved occupations. volksgrenadier does not equal rubbish. Many acquitted themselves very very well.

Remember the vast majority of UK units and US units at D-day were TA and Reservists.

The second world war post 42 was *not* fought with the professional armies who faced each other in 39.

Early war helmets have a decal on each side a national flag on one and the eagle on the other, after Poland and France the national flag was removed as it again wasnt tactical, by late war over paints make having an eagle pretty much optional.

I dont bother with my lid, i gave it a 'Normandy' over spray of dunkelgelb/sand.

I think it looks cool with the eagle. You could always get a splinter helmet cover.

Gadge, thanks for the post. I thought that as it is Varsity and I don't know any better, the German force wouldn't have been a crack front line unit initially, more likely a second line "guard" unit just keeping an eye on the civilians, etc. Also you have confirmed my thinking that GD would not have been around in the area of Varsity as a unit. Thats why I wanted to look (as it is my first time) as a bit of a nondescript German garrison infantry soldier. It would be a bit tactically silly to glider into the best German units if you didn't need to.

What actually happened on the German side, were more elite troops rushed in and who did the Brits make contact with initially?

On the subject of who will win, don't forget the Germans had years to dig in and knew the ground so second line or not, you will have a fight!

German forces facing the ox and bucks were the 84th inf div.

this consisted of largely:

1051. Grenadier Regiment
1052. Grenadier Regiment
1062. Grenadier Regiment
184. Artillery Regiment
184. Panzerjager Battalion
184. Signals Battalion
184. Pioneer Battalion

(thanks to PD for that info, i was actually having trouble getting an accurate list of units in initial game planing)

Mostly leg infantry, representing a member of any of those units would be perfect.
Unfortunately there are no super elite dramatic sounding regiments there.

I was under the impression that the 116th panzer 'windhund' division were there which would have made a nice dramatic face off but although they were in the area they never fought the ox and bucks.

This is a clash between 'ordinary men' from two opposing infantry forces - a perfect game for the 'Poor Bloody Infantry' of both sides.

I dont think any of the German units were particularly bad (and i doubt the germans had anything 'elite' left by march of 45) as mentioned volksgrenadier doesnt mean rubbish, its just means late war infantry formed up from soldiers who were previously exempt form military service.

Sometimes this might be becasue they had previously been considered a little too old (though not volksturm type 'old men') or been in a job considered vital to the war effort and so exempt from military service (engineering, famring etc).

So these guys who are trained soldiers (but not pre war proffesionals - again largely extinct as a breed by 45) will face against the ox and bucks, a regular uk inf battalion given special training to lad in gliders but again being 'ordinary guys' many of which were not in military service until called up.

Sooo your choice of loadout is ideal really.

The thing is if you do a generic heer loadout you can do anything from a pre war regular in an elite formation to a late war conscript. Apart form numbers on shoulder straps (often reversed or removed for operational security) all more or less wore the same kit with not many distinguishing features.

If you're being a purist its once you start putting on divisional insignia (cufftitles, windhund cap badges etc) that you narrow down what you can portray. However its airsoft, no-one really has a problem with GD fighting the 101st on the beaches of Normandy despite it being historical nonsense

FYI, the Volksgrenadier units had a much higher percentage of MP44s than regular units, in an attempt to up their firepower.