[Sticky] After battle reports and pictures

in fairness not all the germans did this

you kind of have to fight the impulse to run from grenades, its a natural reflex action although i'm all in favour of not running as it does make for better game play.

Yup, I had to stop a ruskie doing it as well.

It is a reflex well worth stopping...

Pics look great guys and outside of the Cheating winker, sounds like a great first effort well done guys.

Its a shame the site isn't a bit bigger as it does look the balls.

Roll on your next one

Yes guys sounds like you made a good first go at this.
It's hard to work out how a game will flow at the best of times, I don't like small sites have been to some in the past at CIA events and didn't enjoy seeing the enemy 40 ft away and being told they were not in rang or visible yet. Just how a game has to be forced to run sometimes but it is a strain on the imagination to say you can't see them .

Even a large site can be hard to keep a full flow none mission oriented event running.
Unless you have a big team of guys in command with good coms you will have problems.

Good luck with your next event

I think we had different experiences in different bits of the line. Over in 2 section sector it was a relatively quiet morning, with a manageable level of casualties and ammo expenditure and we extended our front to let 1 section concentrate a bit more. It was quite alarming hearing all the shouting, firing and explosions from behind our flank and very alarming indeed when the Germans took the buildings on our right and trying to retake them was great fun (even if there was a bit of girly running away from grenades).

Gordon was complaining about the squeaky wheels on the AT gun, but actually when the big attack came in on our position in the afternoon, hearing that gun being wheeled into position was one of the scariest things ever, it sounded like a tank

Quiet bits are fine by me, I certainly don't want to be tearing around like a 19 year old all day, nor engaged in a continuous firefights, which really is an open day experience.

wrt the ammo, as Wladeck says, maybe taking a token on regen (like we did at Oddballs game in August) as well as on reload would help enforce the ammo limits better. I would also think about having a 1000 base load for MGs (with the 100 round reload/regen thing), lots of ammo really is the only thing which makes airsoft MGs worth using. iirc we did 1000 rounds for the MG at Chambois and it worked OK.

wrt the guns, if they are going to have special game effects, these need to be explained to everyone either at game start or as part of the side specific briefings to avoid misunderstandings. I've played loads of games with Joshs guns and I think they work really well as objectives and to add atmosphere, but to actually have them shooting stuff is a bit harder to manage. The 'suppression' thing used at Gothic LIne worked quite well, but even then it is hard for people to remember or even notice in the heat of things.

Despite all the above, this was a good day out and I found it very enjoyable, although I am sorry that some people had a bad experience. Blatant cheating can spoil everyones day but it sounds like it was pretty isolated (even if very obvious to the people who saw it), and in Cheekies case, a genuine error. We've all done daft things in games, I am sure I shouldn't have been wandering around in our minefield after we'd laid it, but I did.

Cheers
Martin

I don't like small sites have been to some in the past at CIA events and didn't enjoy seeing the enemy 40 ft away and being told they were not in rang or visible yet. Just how a game has to be forced to run sometimes but it is a strain on the imagination to say you can't see them .

Care to give me some examples?

Well done to the '900 days' organisers. Make no mistake, organising events is bloody hard and in many ways a thankless task. No one has EVER organised the perfect event - there are so many variables you don't have control of, eventualities you hadn't thought of. Not least players behaving in a way you don't expect. I have always been either (or both!) depressed or furious at the end of a CiA event at not achieving my expectations! If players are unaware of cock ups and come away smiling then you have done a cracking job. If they remember it in years to come then you have excelled!

So, learn from the mistakes, plan as wide and as deep as you can (heh, this doesn't mean run a scripted event!) and each event will be better than the last. Three cheers for to those who step up to the plate and give something back to the WW2 airsoft community.

wrt the ammo, as Wladeck says, maybe taking a token on regen (like we did at Oddballs game in August) as well as on reload would help enforce the ammo limits better. I would also think about having a 1000 base load for MGs (with the 100 round reload/regen thing), lots of ammo really is the only thing which makes airsoft MGs worth using. iirc we did 1000 rounds for the MG at Chambois and it worked OK.

As the ammo was all provided it just took from that supply, opening up a bag that would feed a rifle all day and tipping it, and others, into the ammo box.

If we had not made a supply run, then it would have been different.

Well here's my opinion..... first off, many thanks to Tony and Hazel from Rift who were fantastically hospitable and nice people and to Rich and Bigkie who worked so hard to put on an event for us to enjoy! As squad leader of squad 1, I was given clear and concise orders to follow that morning. My squad were fantastic, following orders with enthusiasm and dedication. Doc and Andy were my dynamic veterans who helped aggressively defend our wire. Mary, our authentic Russian and Benjamin did fantastically in their first event and Chef went about stopping the hun in their tracks, quietly and efficiently all day. I thought the props brought another dynamic to the game and would enhance the play, if players used them as if they were real! I thought the idea of using taped off cleared routes through the mine field was a good one but unfortunately the tape was hard to see (I know Rich was setting this up in the dark and heavy rain) so perhaps it could be better in the future. I'd have liked to see the Germans reciprocate the Russian patrols role play. We could obviously see you guys working on your mines etc and ignored you but it would've been good to see a little more effort to hide or even stop working as we passed. But the idea of having actual wire to cut, I thought was brilliant there was some excellent play from both sides and it showed how well the ammo limit rule helped in how people were being killed...loads of one bullet, one kill hits rather than having half a mag laced in to your chest. I liked the site and the obvious effort Rift has put into it. The controversial use of the AT guns on buildings was a means to an end as the game was bogging down in the building due to numerous rooms preventing grenades clearing them and the fact lots of rifles in the field meant going in to physically clear rooms was impossible due to minimum contact protocol. It just moved the game on. Generally I found my squad had the opportunity to tactically engage the enemy within the parameters of the game, we had tasks such as patrolling, laying wire and setting up phones which kept us busy too. I think we all know there was a common factor in the complaints of cheating and well done cheeky chappy for holding up your hands and apologising for your action. All in all, a good game which I enjoyed. I played with guys I ordinarily wouldn't play with and I hope they enjoyed it as much as I did. I made a promise to get to games and be less rigid in my opinion of game styles and players which I have done and enjoyed. Well done guys. One last niggle tho... Tony and Hazel put a lot of time and resources into catering for us and only Rich, bigkie and I stayed Saturday night. a poor effort by any standards. I know we all have busy lives but we rarely have the luxury of having such facilities on site and such welcoming hosts. Let's use them next time.

lots of rifles in the field meant going in to physically clear rooms was impossible due to minimum contact protocol.

Set phasers to stun rather than kill... (By which I mean: t's a good reason to have lots of sub 350 fps rifles.)

In my role as the German CO, I had a terrific day! And from what I could make out most of the Germans did too, so hats off to Kie and Rich for a superbly organised event.

Aside from the cheating incident already mentioned, I wasn't aware of any other problems but I suspect most were down to the same individual.

The only other issue we had was that due to lack of clarity with my orders, one of the Germans squads prematurely got into a firefight with the Russians near the gate. In doing so they inadvertently ventured into a dense minefield and were all blown sky-high!

The mine clearing was excellent and built the tension nicely. Yes it was necessary to role play not seeing the enemy but that's nothing new and something I've had to do at many previous events. You simply have to imagine that although you can see them, they are out of range of your small arms.

Once we had clear the lanes through the minefields and managed to cut the wire at the end of one, I had the troops fall back to regroup and plan our assault on the enemy positions. We would assault the central buildings first with two thirds of our force whilst the other third would launch a diversionary attack on the right flank.

The Russians in the centre, now alerted to an imminent assault got jittery and preempted the start of our attack by lobbing a grenade. Luckily it fell short otherwise it would have taken out most of the squad.

The attack then went in hard, the MG42 and smg's laying down cover whilst the riflemen crossed the road and grenades the buildings. To my surprise we soon had control of the buildings so I wheeled the attack left to take out the OP building and bunker on the left flank. Again after an short but intense fight the OP was taken. No sooner had myself and Steiner got comfortable on the rooftop Sanger, we heard strange squeaking noises from the woods ahead. Finally it dawned on us that it was an AT gun being brought to bear on our position. We quickly evacuated the building, luckily the gun seemed to misfire which gave us vital seconds to escape. When the first shot did come in the building was already empty and I move our forward CP back to the centre buildings. It was then a fresh squad who returned to the battle from regen and re-occupied the OP which caused the first misunderstanding over the destroyed buildings rules.

With Tim's pioneer zug keeping the enemy occupied on the right flank, I left a squad big enough (I hoped) to keep hold of the centre and sent the remaining troops to capture the bunker on the left and if possible take the AT gun intact. With only a small Russian squad holding the position and with support from our 5cm mortar the troops again put in a good assault and and captured the bunker and AT gun intact, albeit with only a single round remaining. Disappointed that we had so little ammo to use with the AT gun, I took out my frustration by giving a single bullet in the head to each of the dead or dying Ivan's.

After ordering Tim to destroy the bunker, the men took a well earned break, ate some food and brewed some ersatz coffee to revitalise themselves for the next phase. We reported back to HQ that the road through the centre of the forest was large enough to take our heavy armor but was currently laced with AT mines. Our next objective was to clear the road so the armor could get through.

I decided we would utilise the captured gun to support our attack. Due to the lack of maintenance on the gun by it slovenly Bolshevik crew, stealth was not an option and Ivan had the oportunity to prepared a well placed ambush which we rushed headlong into at the cost of many of our men. With the heroic actions of a number of the men we were able to keep in possession of the AT gun and with suppressive fire from the MG crew, we repelled the bushwhackers. with renewed caution we began pushing forward again, harassed all the way by well dug in Russian snipers who were surprisingly good shots. With these finally dispatched, the pioneers set to work clearing the mines. In his haste, feldwebel Steiner blew himself to bits trying to defuse a booby-trapped mine. This made the other pioneers doubly nervous. With the mine clearing almost complete, a squad of Russian reinforcements arrived and we were put on the back foot again. Finally it was time to use the one AT gun round we had and we dispatched the squad as they took position behind a large log pile. Again there was confusion with the AT gun rules and the Russians had to be informed they were all dead.

With the road cleared a dispatch rider arrived with important documents for the neighbouring units positioned a mile away on our left flank. To do so he would need to ride right through the enemy lines which was surely a suicide mission but he was insistent he had to try. I called for volunteers to provide close support and Ade and Tinman stepped up and mounted the sidecar and pillion to ride to their certain deaths. Sure enough a while later reports came in that they were ambushed and killed in a hail of bullets.

The next tasks where to destroy the two remaining Russian command bunkers which the pioneers did with teutonic efficiency in quick succession.

Finally we were to assault the Russian HQ and supply depot. We were keen to press on whilst we had the Russians on the back foot but HQ insisted we pull back and regroup in order to co-ordinate our attack with the other units on our flanks. The downside to this was it gave the Russians time to regroup and prepare their defences meaning we would have a harder time.

I decided we would push our attack around on the far left flank in the hope that Ivan would be expecting us to come straight at them. How successful this was was difficult to gauge. We met tough resistance and men were picked off left right and centre with well aimed shots from unseen positions. Bit by bit we made good progress finally took the depot and HQ. without time to properly secure the position, word came in from HQ that our troops on the left flank had been wiped out and the Russian forces were now about to counter attack our position. We hastily dug in but soon the Russians were amongst us again. I retreated within the supply depot with feldwebel Steiner only to find there was no alternative exit. With only a pistol and a grenade I attempted to put up a defense whilst Steiner was at the back of the room preparing a charge to mouse hole an escape route for us ( well that's what he said he was doing ) suddenly a Russian grenade came through the door and despite being behind cover we were both incapacitated and concussed by the blast.

With fresh re enforcements of our own, we once again attacked and the HQ was soon back in German hands again.

Whilst we prepared for another expected counter attack I suddenly spotted some Russians whom had sneakily stayed concealed in the midst of our position. I shouted a warning to my troops and loosed some shots from my P38 in the Russians direction. To my surprise I score a hit, my only one of the day, but still rather satisfying. As more of my men moved in a couple more ruskies broke cover and ran for their lives, sent on there way with a few taunts.

Shortly after, the final Russian assault came in . As our men were picked off one by one we fell back to the bunker attached the the supply depot. Suddenly a grenade drop through one of the loopholes and the defense and day was ended.

Back to the safe zone for tea and medals.

Again big thanks to Kieran and Rich for putting together a great event. Not perfect but as chommers says, has there ever been one that was? Thanks to Tony for being a great host. Big thanks to the German troops who performed brilliantly and made my job a pleasure and to the Russians who were as always very worthy opponents.

I don't like small sites have been to some in the past at CIA events and didn't enjoy seeing the enemy 40 ft away and being told they were not in rang or visible yet. Just how a game has to be forced to run sometimes but it is a strain on the imagination to say you can't see them .

Care to give me some examples?

No point past history it just happens some times.

I don't like small sites have been to some in the past at CIA events and didn't enjoy seeing the enemy 40 ft away and being told they were not in rang or visible yet. Just how a game has to be forced to run sometimes but it is a strain on the imagination to say you can't see them .

Care to give me some examples?

No point past history it just happens some times.

As it has at many other organisers games and, will do so in the future. It just pisses me off that you've singled out CiA, when I can't think of a single occassion when it's happened. I'm not going to clog up another organisers thread with bickering over it, when you clearly can't back your original claim up.

No point most games I have been to have been CIA games and it is true on small sites this happens sometimes, people organising an event may not even be aware of it or at least not all of them. As others have said on here each person can have a different perspective on an event.
To state a particular event where this happened would be pointless and stink of finger pointing if you wish I will edit my post and remove CIA but as I said most of the game I went to in the distant past were CIA ones and on the whole they were good but even the best ones had down sides.
You can't believe every game ran perfect for everyone surely?

These guys have put on a first event and by the sounds done a good job with what they had to work with.

END NO MORE

Small sites are hard, they are made harder by pretending they are not so. Pretending you haven't seen someone is only one dangerous step from yelling "spotting, 5", and they reply "sneaking, 6". It is called roleplaying, but it is not, it is just a bit naff.

I was reminded of Cassino - When Johnny said he thought actually cutting the wire was a brilliant idea - and I remember minefields being crossed on bellies, bayonets drawn and poking, after a flanking march which had to taken so long to go behind hillocks and bushes and remain unseen. Whilst a forward unit crept to the only available cover before the barbed wire line (reconnoitered painstakingly over an hour before had) and waiting for the time to go before launching forward under a smoke screen and cutting a route through the barbed wire whilst under fire, just after a diversion had been launched in the woodland to the south.

By which I mean although the site was larger (much more so) it was a damned sight sparser, with no substantial cover to be found except in patches, and still fortifications were reconnoitered, breached and crossed without recourse to pretending anyone could not be seen. In fact I remember the recce and the assault at some very tense moments - knowing you had to lie there for 5 minutes until it was time to charge the wire, and hoping the diversion had worked.

Sorry, that sounds like a vulgar soliloquy for Cassino, I was just reminded and putting the two together thought haw much worse it would be if it had involved some 'pretend you haven't seen them'. Not having such a rule means it will take longer, far longer, but be more tense, more immersive, more fun etc etc,.

:ghey-fight:
No point most games I have been to have been CIA games and it is true on small sites this happens sometimes, people organising an event may not even be aware of it or at least not all of them. As others have said on here each person can have a different perspective on an event.
To state a particular event where this happened would be pointless and stink of finger pointing if you wish I will edit my post and remove CIA but as I said most of the game I went to in the distant past were CIA ones and on the whole they were good but even the best ones had down sides.
You can't believe every game ran perfect for everyone surely?

These guys have put on a first event and by the sounds done a good job with what they had to work with.

END NO MORE

Determined to have the last word, aren't you?

Anyhow, handbags down. Anyone who organises a game these days deserves credit for doing so and, I applaud Rich and Kieran for doing so. I also applaud those who stopped talking about kit and guns long enough to actually get out and play.

Ok, now I can finally put down my response I'm afraid it may be a little long winded so bare with me.

Firstly thankyou for all the positive comments, its good to know when all your hard work pays off.

Now the issues. Of course we're aware not everything went to plan but as already mentioned it rarely does. Your critisim is most welcome as we're happy to take it on board and improve.

I'll address a few points raised if I may.

First off; the cheating.
This was only brought to my attention very late on and as the culprits could not be identified at the time there wasn't much that could be done. One player has already been identified since and won't be coming back and we will come down very hard on anyone found doing the same in future. As Headshot says the last thing we want is to have to marshals in the field.

Second-ammo limits.
We opted for the 100 rounds due to the small size of the site and I believe it was mostly adhered to and worked well. We thought it would provide good middle ground between Wladeks personal issuing of ammo which is very labourious to prepare and the usual 300 limit which would have been too much for the site. We were hopeful that an added side effect would be that people would better able to see the benifits of Wladeks very low limits or even 'real steel' in the future once they've experienced the 100 rounds. The ammo tokens were ment to give us more control over the flo of the game as we could restrict a squads ammo limit forcing them to stop or pull back. There didn't seem to be alot of tokens used on the Russian side so I don't think people really remembered or understood. I can't really comment on the German side as I don't know how they were used but the tins were mainly for use by Mgs since we felt they would be the ones burning through the ammo. I still think it has merrit but definitely needs some tweaking. The idea of all ammo being issued rather than automatically getting it on respawn is still one that I am prepared to support.

The AT guns.
The guns were originally added as prop targets for the Germans to take out (the scenario being based on a Soviet AT battery) but as we had them we decided we might as well make them fire. With the small size of the site were imagined any use of them would be fairly up close so calling the hit wouldn't be so much of an issue. Of course it didn't work out quite like that as people were often unaware they had been fired upon without marshalling and we avoid such things in future. The destroyed building thing was added in game to avoid getting bogged down in the middle. I hindsight a temporary measure might have worked better (on fire?)as they were a major feature of the site and it was a shame not to make more use of them. Lessons learned however.

The site/gameplay style.
A 'combat mission' style gameplan was considered but given the general preference for the regen style of game we decided to stick with it. Although the site was small the buildings and bunkers cut down the line of sight to allow tactical movement and the low ammo limits would prevent a slogging match. For the most part I think this was successful.

The mine field clearance was orginally planned for the Friday night when no 'giant bunny' rule would have been needed but as that didn't happen we moved it to the morning since we had already aquired many of the props. Yes it did take a bit of imagination and there were one or two Germans who could have made a little more effort but its nothing that hasn't been seen in a number of previous games on both large and small sites.

It was unfortunate that the AT group ended up stuck holding the same ground against minimal opposition. The main German attack was meant to swing around that way in the afternoon but we underestimated the number of mines left to clear on the road or the tenancity of squad 2s defence so thing viered off in the wrong direction.
The courier thing was a late addition (it was intended for another purpose originally although Tony didn't bring it purely for our benefit) so a little ad hoc. I didn't want to script it totally so I gave Tony the choice of what route to take thinking he wouldn't be daft enough to take the one with the AT gun parked in the road- but he was... That unfortunately made your well laid ambush a little pointless no doubt to your disapointment. At this point we should have rotate you to a different position but I'm afraid things got a little confused in the reorganisation and it was missed for which I can only appologise.

Best laid plans and all that!!!

I can remember laughing at the charge of the "Bike Brigade". It was silly and funny. Afterwards there was a long pause and at the time I didn't associate that with the fact that your ambush had been ruined.

Once again well done for putting in the effort and for giving us all a fun day.

yes, most people prefer the regen-y games, that's quite right. And if you issue ammo (or a token) out as used, rather than reloading on death, it will make the ammunition more meaningful - assuming you want that.