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[Sticky] Kit Guide: The Italians

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(@wladek)
Posts: 4320
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Topic starter
 

Basically it is now really simple to do Italian: http://www.hikishop.com/

I was going to wait until I had a uniform to photograph, but will put this up before hand. The uniforms are now sourcable with Hiki, and webbing/helmet items are both available on the usual online marketplace suspects.

So, Cammeratti, The Italian uniform of 1940 is pretty much the Italian uniform of the war - especially if you think smart and 'buy early'.

The basis is woolen Pantelone with High puttees and a tunic (M37). These are in the distinctive Italian colour of Grigo Verde (Green Grey).

So these trousers

With these Puttees.

this Shirt, worn under...

this tunic

and topped of with this hat

That is the basic Italian uniform. You can even forgo the tunic and fight in shirtsleeves "Captain Corelli style".

so, the rest of it?

Helmets very very almost identiacal to Bulgarian M51 Helmets, which are readily available from places like this: [link]http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_odkw=51+bulgarian+helmet&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.XM51+bulgarian+helmet&_nkw=M51+bulgarian+helmet&_sacat=0[/link].

The Leather Belt, ammo pouches/bandolier, gas mask bag and waterbottle can also be found on ebay (ebay.it is useful) for varying but not extortionate amounts. I will get back to you on the Italian words for them.

EDIT: inserting information on insignia.

Italian insignia

Italian insignia for the unit was found on the soft hat, and on the collar of the tunic. The device on the collar is the Mostrine. This depended on the branch of the army, and for infantry and cavalry the regiment. They all have the silver star of the Royal Army on them - you will also see ones with a gladius and wreath instead of the star, this was the insignia of the RSI, which sided with Mussolini after the Italian surrender and fought on the axis side. All wore the star up until the surrender, and units that fought with the allies after that retained the star (they we still the Royal Army)

The three basic 'regular arms' are the Infantry, the Alpini and Bersaglieri.

ALPINI
The Alpini I will just mention first as they have a difference to the uniforms mentioned, and so are the less likely to be what people have the uniform for - they have a different soft hat, one which is hard to get hold of (even if admittedly excellent).

The Alpini Mostrine is green, with two symbolic flames, as seen here along with the hat. The Mostrine (and cap badge) are easy to find as repros on ebay.it etc, the hat, however, is not.

BERSAGLIERI
The Bersaglieri Mostrine is a red/maroon colour and, like the Alpini it has 2 symbolic flames. Some Bersaglieri wore a fez as a soft hat, but most wore a Bustina The Mostrine is available as a repro from a few places, one linked below, and the badge for the cap is also easy to come by, as they are a popular 'elite' unit, so you can find repros.

The Mostrine

[link]http://www.ebay.it/itm/II-GUERRA-MONDIALE-REGIO-ESERCITO-COPPIA-DI-MOSTRINE-IN-PANNO-BERSAGLIERI-/400477816796?pt=Militaria_Collezionismo&hash=item5d3e5687dc[/link]

Cap Badge

[link]http://www.ebay.it/itm/Patch-BERSAGLIERI-fregio-su-fondo-grigioverde-Replica-/290947078755?pt=Militaria_Collezionismo&hash=item43bdcc1a63[/link]

Bersaglieri also have one other distinctive feature, so you have to ask yourself what your view on Cockerel Feathers (sic) is. The Bersaglieri are the ones with Capercaillie feathers on the side of their helmet. I know the obvious answer is "I would love that!", because what right minded person would not? BUT the feather plumes, easy to get hold of, are attached to the helmet with a porta piumetto, and I am still hunting for a source for this. they are apparently available both post-war and repro, but those more in the know than me are yet to provide me with the information to find one. Of course not all of them wore the feathers, so they can be avoided/postponed.

Porto Pimetto

INFANTRY
As you can see from the first picture the Infantry wore different Mostine depending on their Division. Their cap badge was the same for all the infantry - and these are readily available from ebay, and even from Hiki. The mostrine is trickier - as there are so many variants, a search for "Mostrine Fanteria" can bring some up on ebay.it, but you have to make sure they are cloth ones, not plastic/enamel (which are like 60's or sommat). There is someone who makes repros, on ebay.it, but his multiple posting of "ONLY TO ITALY" makes me think it is not worth asking if he will ship to the UK.

Fantaria insignia on the bustina

What would my advice be?

Bersaglieri - the stuff is easier to find, the uniform is standard and the option for Plumage is too great to miss.

 
Posted : 17/02/2014 10:53 am
(@prideofengland)
Posts: 2142
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Ummmm, Hiki do stone gray Gebirgshosen now as well :D

 
Posted : 17/02/2014 4:21 pm
(@wladek)
Posts: 4320
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Topic starter
 

Ummmm, Hiki do stone gray Gebirgshosen now as well :D

I did notice them too, and was going to mention it in the Gebirgs' guide. :D

 
Posted : 17/02/2014 4:29 pm
(@wladek)
Posts: 4320
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Topic starter
 

More Italian info updated.

 
Posted : 04/03/2014 3:32 pm
dcheetham89
(@dcheetham89)
Posts: 409
Reputable Member
 

This kit looks gorgeous! I wish there were more games were more games I could wear this too if I bought it

edit: any idea where i could buy webbing?

 
Posted : 04/03/2014 7:58 pm
(@wladek)
Posts: 4320
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re the webbing yes, but I need to have the time to sift through all the words to type into Ebay.it (so many kit guide, so many languages).

Games? Well there will be one of the Early war once a year, and there are actually plenty of games set in Italy/Eastern Front. The doughboys will be running games set in the Italian theater. However no one has really run one (CiA did way back in the day) with Italians as there was never a source for the kit - until now. Now there it, who knows. :whistle:

Plus you are a talking to a guy with Polish and Japanese (and italian) kit, I need no excuses. :twisted:

 
Posted : 04/03/2014 8:20 pm
Steiner
(@steiner_1609088194)
Posts: 10414
Illustrious Member
 

Let's forget the airsoft, and just go down town in our uniforms! :giggle:


You've got nothing to ein, zwei, drei, vier

 
Posted : 04/03/2014 10:19 pm
dcheetham89
(@dcheetham89)
Posts: 409
Reputable Member
 

re the webbing yes, but I need to have the time to sift through all the words to type into Ebay.it (so many kit guide, so many languages).

Games? Well there will be one of the Early war once a year, and there are actually plenty of games set in Italy/Eastern Front. The doughboys will be running games set in the Italian theater. However no one has really run one (CiA did way back in the day) with Italians as there was never a source for the kit - until now. Now there it, who knows. :whistle:

Plus you are a talking to a guy with Polish and Japanese (and italian) kit, I need no excuses. :twisted:

haha yes I know, I dont have a Axis Kit just my Brit, not tempted to do German so this might have to be done...yay...dont tell the mrs...

I was hoping to go Brit but maybe if I "borrow" from the wedding fund I could find a way :-D, still only have a No4 though, that would annoy me :rofl:

 
Posted : 04/03/2014 10:29 pm
Hurrah
(@hurrah)
Posts: 291
Reputable Member
 

This ebay trader has the belts and the rifle ammo pouches (and I'm a satisfied regular customer of theirs so can vouch for the service)

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/SFRANKISH-ARMY ... RIA?_rdc=1

I understand support was though one long loop that ran from the belt buckle, up round the neck and back to the buckle again.

Down to his last canteen though, though other traders have them as well.
If you have a smaller head and want to go real crazy and leather up, :wink: there is this helmet
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ITALY-ITALIAN ... 1c3930408e

However as usual not the only trader out there, some might have keener prices etc. so hunt about.

To the tune of "Mademoiselle from Armentières"

Napoleons army ran away, As you do
The guard stood firm for Frances Pride, As you do
They said the guard will stand and die
But we heard what their Colonel cried
It wasn't pretty I tell you.


Resistance is fertile

 
Posted : 04/03/2014 10:37 pm
(@wladek)
Posts: 4320
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Topic starter
 

Let's forget the airsoft, and just go down town in our uniforms! :giggle:

Oh do not think it has not been considered. :whistle:

 
Posted : 05/03/2014 11:22 am
MartinR
(@martinr)
Posts: 2866
Famed Member
 

Perhaps we should just have training weekends to display our finery, never mind all this game playing nonsense.

Italians would be fine at many games. Presumably the RSI wore Italian uniforms with a few fascist embellishments?

Cheers
Martin

"Mistakes in the initial deployment cannot be rectified" Helmuth von Moltke
Toys: AGM MP40, Cyma M1A1, TM M14/G43/SVT40, TM VSR/K98, SnS No. 4, ASG Sten, Ppsh.
Arnhem3,Gumrak,Campoleone

 
Posted : 05/03/2014 11:41 am
(@wladek)
Posts: 4320
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Topic starter
 

They did. Indeed the Italian Liberation force, later the co-belligerent army, started off wearing Italian, then Italian mixed with Brit and US before finally being equipped by the British.

See I would organise a fun xmas bash like was done a few years ago but I lack the illicit drug empire to fund it. :giggle:

I have considered a rifles training weekend - because using them on their own does alter the dynamic somewhat, but did not think it was something people would be interested in. There will definitely be a proper Drink and Bling social before the Copenhagen game, it's about time that came back into vogue.

 
Posted : 05/03/2014 11:48 am
dcheetham89
(@dcheetham89)
Posts: 409
Reputable Member
 

Well I just bought everything and a belt. I had thought I was going to do B.E.F, but I think I'll have to do Italian now :D ...hoping for a few more early war games though!, thanks Wladek, great idea, but also curse you :giggle: also bought the belt because the voices told me too

on another note, do you have examples of typical insignia, cant seem to find them on google-fu (as in to buy them)

 
Posted : 06/03/2014 7:37 am
(@wladek)
Posts: 4320
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Topic starter
 

crikey, I feel all responsible now. :whistle:

Oh and welcome to the minor nation google problem (we assume you ment "German insgnia in Italy" :evil: )

Insignia was the "mostine" on the collar, whcih is a coloured felt patch with a silver star, and the arm of service badge on the front of the bustina.

 
Posted : 06/03/2014 9:09 am
dcheetham89
(@dcheetham89)
Posts: 409
Reputable Member
 

Yes that's exactly what Google was telling me! Hmm so are there no repro ones available ? I wonder if it could be home made?

 
Posted : 06/03/2014 9:32 pm
(@wladek)
Posts: 4320
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Topic starter
 

The one bit I have not got for my unifrom yet (they are on their way which answers one of your questions, yes you can get them repro) mainly it would depend on what unit you would like to badge up as?

no camera at new house yet, but there is a webcam (mainly I was trying on the boots, but webcams do not do that (scrap that, internet shows many webcam's go 'below the midrift :whistle: ))


 
Posted : 06/03/2014 10:23 pm
dcheetham89
(@dcheetham89)
Posts: 409
Reputable Member
 

Brilliant! Loving the tash, its got to happen for the game, I don't know what I want to badge up as, any links to shops ?

 
Posted : 07/03/2014 12:38 am
MartinR
(@martinr)
Posts: 2866
Famed Member
 

I wonder if it could be home made?

You need to be a bit cautious with felt from hobby shops, I have found the dye runs when it get wet. It may be possible to adapt some other countries collar tabs.

Cheers
Martin

"Mistakes in the initial deployment cannot be rectified" Helmuth von Moltke
Toys: AGM MP40, Cyma M1A1, TM M14/G43/SVT40, TM VSR/K98, SnS No. 4, ASG Sten, Ppsh.
Arnhem3,Gumrak,Campoleone

 
Posted : 07/03/2014 8:42 am
dcheetham89
(@dcheetham89)
Posts: 409
Reputable Member
 

I wonder if it could be home made?

You need to be a bit cautious with felt from hobby shops, I have found the dye runs when it get wet. It may be possible to adapt some other countries collar tabs.

Cheers
Martin

Thanks for the warning Martin, I would have cried if I had found that out the hard way!

 
Posted : 07/03/2014 9:03 am
(@wladek)
Posts: 4320
Famed Member
Topic starter
 

Italian insignia

Italian insignia for the unit was found on the soft hat, and on the collar of the tunic. The device on the collar is the Mostrine. This depended on the branch of the army, and for infantry and cavalry the regiment. They all have the silver star of the Royal Army on them - you will also see ones with a gladius and wreath instead of the star, this was the insignia of the RSI, which sided with Mussolini after the Italian surrender and fought on the axis side. All wore the star up until the surrender, and units that fought with the allies after that retained the star (they we still the Royal Army)

The three basic 'regular arms' are the Infantry, the Alpini and Bersaglieri.

ALPINI
The Alpini I will just mention first as they have a difference to the uniforms mentioned, and so are the less likely to be what people have the uniform for - they have a different soft hat, one which is hard to get hold of (even if admittedly excellent).

The Alpini Mostrine is green, with two symbolic flames, as seen here along with the hat. The Mostrine (and cap badge) are easy to find as repros on ebay.it etc, the hat, however, is not.

BERSAGLIERI
The Bersaglieri Mostrine is a red/maroon colour and, like the Alpini it has 2 symbolic flames. Some Bersaglieri wore a fez as a soft hat, but most wore a Bustina The Mostrine is available as a repro from a few places, one linked below, and the badge for the cap is also easy to come by, as they are a popular 'elite' unit, so you can find repros.

The Mostrine

[link]http://www.ebay.it/itm/II-GUERRA-MONDIALE-REGIO-ESERCITO-COPPIA-DI-MOSTRINE-IN-PANNO-BERSAGLIERI-/400477816796?pt=Militaria_Collezionismo&hash=item5d3e5687dc[/link]

Cap Badge

[link]http://www.ebay.it/itm/Patch-BERSAGLIERI-fregio-su-fondo-grigioverde-Replica-/290947078755?pt=Militaria_Collezionismo&hash=item43bdcc1a63[/link]

Bersaglieri also have one other distinctive feature, so you have to ask yourself what your view on Cockerel Feathers (sic) is. The Bersaglieri are the ones with Capercaillie feathers on the side of their helmet. I know the obvious answer is "I would love that!", because what right minded person would not? BUT the feather plumes, easy to get hold of, are attached to the helmet with a porta piumetto, and I am still hunting for a source for this. they are apparently available both post-war and repro, but those more in the know than me are yet to provide me with the information to find one. Of course not all of them wore the feathers, so they can be avoided/postponed.

Porto Pimetto

INFANTRY
As you can see from the first picture the Infantry wore different Mostine depending on their Division. Their cap badge was the same for all the infantry - and these are readily available from ebay, and even from Hiki. The mostrine is trickier - as there are so many variants, a search for "Mostrine Fanteria" can bring some up on ebay.it, but you have to make sure they are cloth ones, not plastic/enamel (which are like 60's or sommat). There is someone who makes repros, on ebay.it, but his multiple posting of "ONLY TO ITALY" makes me think it is not worth asking if he will ship to the UK.

Fantaria insignia on the bustina

What would my advice be?

Bersaglieri - the stuff is easier to find, the uniform is standard and the option for Plumage is too great to miss.

 
Posted : 07/03/2014 11:51 am
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