Well I for one don't mind changing mags after 2 or 3 bursts even if it's a pain in the hoop - I like the "pretendy realism" of it . If I wanted convenience I'd get a Minimi with a box mag.
Fair points.
How do folk feel about the support gunner carrying x ammount and guys in the section having zip lock bags with 'additional ammo' for it?
too realistic, too much of a pain in the bum?
"I think we are in rats' alley - Where the dead men lost their bones."
I like that idea. It makes the rest of us aware of the importance of the machine gunner and should keep the squad more "together".
regarding 'snipers' I agree with Yith, I can't see any great need to limit them. They're pretty self limiting in the amount of ammo they can carry in mags and reloading isn't exactly a speedy business. The nature of the gun means people will tend pick their shots most of the time and not use up much ammo. If you do need all 600 rounds for one game/life then maybe you should try using something else. 
Ammo limit wise I think Yiths right too- 600 for longer games like CIA is probably right, 300 for shorter PBI game I think should work well.
I like the idea of splitting the MG ammo between the squad. As B&H says it should enhance the MGs importance, especially with lower limits for everyone else and make a squad work together more as a team, sharing the burrden of carrying the ammo and keeping the gun running.
I like the idea of splitting the MG ammo between the squad. As B&H says it should enhance the MGs importance, especially with lower limits for everyone else and make a squad work together more as a team, sharing the burrden of carrying the ammo and keeping the gun running.
That will depend on the players and commanders... I can also see it meaning the support gun runs out of ammo quickly as people refuse (or forget) to keep it loaded...
I can see it making for some tense play as troopers try and keep the mgs supplies and dont just treat the squad mg as the 'slow' player.
"I think we are in rats' alley - Where the dead men lost their bones."
Agree with Yith and Lardy on the sniper ammo, no limit really needed.
MG ammo among the squad is a good idea and would work well within established teams who really play as a proper squad, might be harder when its a loose bunch of players in ad-hoc squads.
Maybe an MG team with the gunner and a number two who caries the ammo in an ammo tin and does the reloading etc. could be a problem in regen games though as the gunner could easily "lose" his number two but if anyone could be the number two (just need to carry the ammo tin).
It all hinges on the squads working around their MG in an authentic manner really. I'd love to give it a go. Mind you Barrie's been trying to get someone to do a number 2 on his bren for ages with no takers 
“I wanted to come to the Volga at a specific location at a specific city. By chance it carries the name of Stalin himself. So don’t think I marched there for this reason – it could carry another name – but because there is a very important goal... this goal I wanted to take – and you know – we are very modest, we have it already."
Adolf Hitler, November 1942
"Comrades, Red Army men, commanders and political workers, men and women guerrillas! It is on your perseverance, staunchness, fighting skill and readiness to discharge your duty to the country that the defeat of the German-fascist army and the liberation of the Soviet land from the Hitlerite invaders depend! We can and must clear the Soviet land of Hitlerite vermin."
Joseph Stalin, November 1942
Actually Barrie last said that he'd be happy to be No2 on the Bren and have someone else fire it.
We did this for a while at Husky at it was wonderful fun!
Unfortunately I often have a leadership role so can't do this sort of thing... 
BTW... on the distributed mag thing. I suggest that for Op Lightning we restrict the player ammo and keep it as it is... then if things work out and the sides do play well as squads lets bring the distributed ammo into the game... 
Maybe the loader havng half the ammo is the answer?
I quite like that.
Great debate guys keep it coming, nothings set in stone!
"I think we are in rats' alley - Where the dead men lost their bones."
300 for AEGs and rifles - good idea which I'd like to try at Op Lightning. (Let's face it, it can always be changed during the day if it's not working.) No point in further limiting riflemen - single shot is difficult enough. Yes, carrying extra ammo for the support weapon - let's try it - sounds fun! 
You've got nothing to ein, zwei, drei, vier
Yes, loader with half ammo works for me.
With Barries bren the loader is kept busy filling up the mid cap mags and passing them to the gunner.
Actually Barrie last said that he'd be happy to be No2 on the Bren and have someone else fire it.
We did this for a while at Husky at it was wonderful fun!
Yes sorry Yith, I couldnt resist the (bad) pun!
“I wanted to come to the Volga at a specific location at a specific city. By chance it carries the name of Stalin himself. So don’t think I marched there for this reason – it could carry another name – but because there is a very important goal... this goal I wanted to take – and you know – we are very modest, we have it already."
Adolf Hitler, November 1942
"Comrades, Red Army men, commanders and political workers, men and women guerrillas! It is on your perseverance, staunchness, fighting skill and readiness to discharge your duty to the country that the defeat of the German-fascist army and the liberation of the Soviet land from the Hitlerite invaders depend! We can and must clear the Soviet land of Hitlerite vermin."
Joseph Stalin, November 1942
I didn't even notice the pun...
I'm definitely in favour of a 300 round limit for riflemen, just to try it out. Smg's don't come into it for this game really, as I thought we were attempting to field squads which were predominently made up of riflemen? Yes the squad leader will have an smg but that's it.
I also like the idea of a No2 carrying extra ammo for support guns. Maybe even possible to spread more ammo throughout the squad for the MG? Clearly marked bags/speedloaders with "MG" on them would stop any confusion. If the guys carrying extra MG ammo get zapped, then it's less for the gun and adds an added tactical level to the game.
I have no objection to anyone using a hicap on an smg, as long as the limits are stuck to. As already stated, with 100 round speedloaders, it's not rocket science to fill only to the limit.
When I want your opinion - I'll tell you what it is!
I'm definitely in favour of a 300 round limit for riflemen, just to try it out. Smg's don't come into it for this game really, as I thought we were attempting to field squads which were predominently made up of riflemen? Yes the squad leader will have an smg but that's it.
Heh you say this but we Brits usually end up playing units like airlanding, commandos or even SAS.
All of these had a much larger percentage of SMGs and LMGs compared to the standard line infantry unit.
I'm definitely in favour of a 300 round limit for riflemen, just to try it out. Smg's don't come into it for this game really, as I thought we were attempting to field squads which were predominently made up of riflemen? Yes the squad leader will have an smg but that's it.
Heh you say this but we Brits usually end up playing units like airlanding, commandos or even SAS.
All of these had a much larger percentage of SMGs and LMGs compared to the standard line infantry unit.
That's fair enough. BUT my impression of this game was that we were going for a far more "typical" sqaud structure. I've already told my guys to use rifles. I'm sure an SS task force would be armed to the teeth as well if they were hunting down partisans and British commandoes (sturm squads had 2 MG's for example) but I'm convinced that would detract from the game to such a point I wouldn't want to play it! More rifles = a chance to use some decent tactics and actually fire and manouvure. If there are loads of smg's, what's the point of fielding heavy, cumbersome support guns?
When I want your opinion - I'll tell you what it is!
Heh... I also agree... Would love more peeps to get some line infantry kit, but its more expensive...
Lets not confuse specific rules for Op Lightning with a review of the general PBI rules set though...
Although op lighting will have a large proportion of rifles later game like St Lo may not have the same mix.
"I think we are in rats' alley - Where the dead men lost their bones."
I always seem to come along after the debate is finished but anyway here's my view.
1. I agree with Heide I was hoping for rifle sections at Op Lightning in which case the smg debate is largely irrelevant.
2. For the St Lo game it would be excellent to have proper US rifle sections too but I'm not stupid and I can see that's probably an aspiration rather than a possibility.
3. I say give the 300 limit a go and see what happens.
4. For the bren, I now have five mid-caps and was thinking along the lines of one mag in the gun, two on the gunner and two on the no.2 (me). That makes about 600. I was also thinking about getting say four of those M4-mag-shaped speedloaders that take 400 each, that would be 1600 making a total of 2200. The speedloaders could be distributed however you like amongst the squad, with at least one for the no.2. For short games that will be easily enough especially as you can't hold the trigger down because the mags have to be frantically speedloaded by the no.2. All I need now is a volunteer to shoot a big heavy gun (but they're harder to come by than you might imagine).
5. For MG42s I think it's right they have electrically wound mega-caps to simulate the belt feed. Maybe they should have a higher ammo limit, but it should be in heavy ammo boxes??
6. I also think it is perfectly reasonable for someone else to go back to the cp and re-supply a support gun i.e. it doesn't have to be the gunner who makes the trip. What happens when people regen is of course not an issue for "Combat Mission" (tm) games.
I believe that the TM M4 / M16 speedloader mags take 470. (And they are excellent.)
You've got nothing to ein, zwei, drei, vier