Ammo rules and mag capacity debate.

They are... thats a good idea.

I have two of the large loaders.. I'll label them up as mine and lend them out for this little experiment...

Hi, I haven't read carefully through this thread just jumped to the end so if it is a repeat of what has been said, apologies.

After chatting with Heide I thought about the ammo limit thing and came to the following conclusions:

Needs control of who has what weapon so no more then 3 smgs in the squad, 1 mg and the rest on rifles.
Needs a "carry limit" and I worked out at a 3x bbs to roughly real ratio- rifleman have 200 rounds personal and 200 rounds for Bren or 250 for MG42 bagged.
SMG users have 350 (seven mags) for personal and 200 rounds for Bren or 250 for MG42 bagged if they want to or if they are No 2 and have ammo carrier (aux pouches or box) additional 400 for Bren and 600 for MG42.

This means in your role, you can't carry any more ammo than this "carry limit" ready for use but can be resupplied in field and get amo from dumps. This allows leaving ammo with MG crew but they can't carry it. Commander can change the scale within the overall limits.

Sounds a little complicated but it isn't and ten minutes organisation with pre-bagged ammo would sort it.

I noted that the idea of bagged ammo and distribute in the squad is already above and I think this is the way to go as it will force more real tactics.

I don't have a problem with Hicaps though I have 47rnd locaps for my Thompson but that is my choice and my money (everything is dear enough as it is)

We shouldn't consider "what if people cheat" - you can't stop them -it is about following rules for a better game and that is up to the player.

Diferent scenarios would have different loadouts but we should start with rifle squads (8 with rifles a minimum ideally) then we can do "mad minute" etc.

everone is banging on about bolt action rifles and less smg's, well i own a thompson and an mp 40 and dont have a few hundred quid to buy a rifle , if that means i wont be welcome at certain games so be it. my family come first, not my pass time.

Perhaps there are some spare rifles in PBI ? (eg if Barry is using the Bren.) Also, there should be room for 1 or 2 SMGs, as stipulated by the organisers.

Scaleyback I'm looking for a volunteer to use the bren just pm me if you're up for it.

Also though, if people really want to try rifle sections maybe we could use mp001s - there might be a few of those that could be leant out - we have one for example but the hop could do with some attention.

everone is banging on about bolt action rifles and less smg's, well i own a thompson and an mp 40 and dont have a few hundred quid to buy a rifle , if that means i wont be welcome at certain games so be it. my family come first, not my pass time.

The game was announced on November 12th and it's got nothing to do with "being welcome" at it. It's just that for one game we're trying to go for a realistic proportion of rifles to auto weapons and as close to reenactment levels of kit as we can get as well. It's a one off and noone is suggesting you spend any money at all on a new weapon.

I'm also fairly certain that someone will have a spare MP001 or BAR10 you could use with a bit of hessian wrapped around it, or, you've got B&A's very kind offer of the use of their lovely Bren gun. There's plenty of time between now and the game to get something sorted.

Can I just go slightly off topic, and ask about minimum engagement ranges for rifles? I know there's the safety aspect to consider, but to be honest, the only time I ever played with a rifle was at Husky, and the minimum engagement range rule was a practical pain in the Arsch. As soon as enemy encroached within 20 (or was it 30?) metres, you were stuffed, and had to withdraw. It is not realistic (or economical) for everyone to have a pistol, so bearing in mind that 90% of people will be armed with rifles, what impact is that going to have on game play ?

Be sensible, at short range shout bang

if they don't comply shoot them

Steve.D

Personally I don't think there will need to be such a large minimium engagement distance for this game. Being in March any gas rifles will be running at decidely lower velocities than at Husky and I believe most of the No4s people own are running at around the 400fps anyway. So a MED of around 10-15m I feel would be sufficent as below that the bang rule can be used without looking stupid and there will be no need to carry a pistol. Obviously we may have 1 or 2 spring snipers running nearer 500fps who should probably pack a pistol and stick to a slightly longer MED.

I still think it's best (and we can bow to authenticity for this!), if players can also carry a pistol (if they have one). Sometimes, you can find yorself sneaking about and quite close to the enemy and it's nice to know you're not going to leave an exit wound if you shoot them and it's not always possible to use a "bang" kill. This happened to me a lot at Husky and I was glad to have my Luger on me. In my opinion, 20 metres is an adequate MED. Any closer, even at 400fps, has the potential to really hurt someone.

Agreed on this, hence the reason I didn't shoot yith at husky, I reckoned that he was too close and could only really have aimed at his head. not really my style, he shot me though rotten mutter mutter

Lol. Same thing happened to me with Barrie but, being a good sport, I picked my spot and pinged one off his para helmet, before shooting a fair few brits (about 7 if I recall) in the back. I couldn't have used the "bang" kill on all of them and I definitely couldn't have used my Tanaka.

I couldn't have used the "bang" kill on all of them....

Lol I bang killed four germans at once at the last game . No names to hide their embarrassment but suffice to say one mg42 team and the whole german high command were involved...

And to keep it on topic, no hi-cap (or any-cap) mag required just my l33t predator camouflage sk1llz to sneak right up on them from 50 metres away.

I couldn't have used the "bang" kill on all of them....

Lol I bang killed four germans at once at the last game . No names to hide their embarrassment but suffice to say one mg42 team and the whole german high command were involved...

And to keep it on topic, no hi-cap (or any-cap) mag required just my l33t predator camouflage sk1llz to sneak right up on them from 50 metres away.

Lol. I saw you coming Barrie but I was so knackered (convinced I was going to pass out in fact), that I couldn't be arsed to do anything about it! Especially since the '42 really is a pain to deploy. It was a cracking bit of play though!

With regards to min range...

Well for lightning its all vet players we know so i think really cia rule no1 will probably be the best benchmark - i.e. dont be a cock...

I think we all know that a close up shot to the head or hands bloody kills but to the limbs or torso its not that bad.

If you're closer than 20 metres then obviously dont aim for the head ?

just my l33t predator camouflage sk1llz to sneak right up on them from 50 metres away.

Tsskk..innit.

for the next game i am going out in the field with only the 300 rounds just to see how i get on( this is inclusive of pistol mags) might be interesting.

Hi, 'n think it was scaleyback that was worried about not having a rifle!

Edit: I have a gas C96 rifle, M14 socom, 328fps VSR (and at a real desparate push an L96) I can lend if I am using my BAR10.

Not a problem if you are an NCO (should be OK to use an smg if the total numbers are kept low eh Gadge?) or if needs be, we must have enough cheap rifles as Barrie says to lend out?

Also, with reply to The Chef on ammo limits - SMG ammo weighs less than rifle in the real world and the pouches sort of dictate how many mages you carry so that roughly sets the amount of BBS? Agree on the 120 rounds being enough for a rifle.

I was hoping we would have longe range squad engagements using rifles where the smg users are in charge not firing and ammo management becomes an issue. After all, we are trying to get the MGs used as they would have ben and this means more teamwork needed?

Really looking forward to this!

at husky i was useing a dboys k98, and had 20, 1 round single shot shells.
as a backup i had a broomhandle mauser , with 20-25 rds in a single magazine
i carried a pistol mag speedloader as well

i had no problems with ammo limits, only once did i get thriugh all 20 shells and have to reload in a firefight.

with my mp 40 i tend to burn through 600 rds quite quickly, i find its better to use a full mag at a target each time, rather than finding ive only got 10 rounds in each mag and forgeting which are half empty.

i think 300 rds is a good limit, eqivielent to 10 magazines. and 10 full real mags are bloody heavy, let me tell you

At Autumn Mist I had 3 20rnd sniper mags, I too a speed loader of 300rnds out with me also, I left after a full days shooting with around 100rnds spare in the loader, and still kept up decient kill ratio, 600rnds works with the amount of Mags a soldier would have carried, on real OPs I take 300 live rnds plus what ever else I can get my hands on, and I bet they would have as well, just say that no mags over a certain limit, say 200 rnds