Disillusioned Yank......

Rhys wasn't there on Sunday or planned ot be there. The Spiers thing was for him getting told off by Gadge for cheap calling ( this was his 3rd airsoft game ever)
Chatted ot Rhys on Friday , he's a bit disappointed ta the way the Doghboys is going, ie nowhere very fast at the moment , and the grass is always greyer on the other side of course.

Rhys seems to change his mind more often than the wind changes... one moment he's going to join PBI, then be a Yank, now he wants to change to German.

I wouldn't worry yourself overly about it.

However Webby wasn't really an ideal commander this weekend, nowhere near vocal enough and certainly not up to shouting Josh down... He basically took over what was supposed to be Webby's job.

LOL

Rhys wasn't even at the game and as far as I know there isn't any moaning or bitching within Doughboy's!!

I studiously ignored Spiers - I'm not even sure I saw him playing during the day!

Frankly, if Doughboy's starts insisting on a particular badging and rank structure they are doomed to failure - and Stubble is heading down that route too. If peeps want fixed badging then PBI is the way to go - small & enthusiastic group of chaps really interested in the history and background - not just dressing up.

Gotcha.

So it's more about the forum traffic than the actual gameplay.

Meh, I'll give it until after Christmas then start geeing people up for TEHL.

For the record, here's what we've discussed:

Hiya S

hows things?

slightly odd question but are you sticking with the kraut side now or will we see you back in american colours again in the not to distant future?

I only ask as im getting a bit sick of the doughboys co-organisers doing beggar all to help(and some members who range from whiney to totally not bothered any more) so im considering abandoning my post there. however your command made the day at churchills so if you were going back to yank I would consider sticking it out. but if your making the darkside switch then its going to make american even less attractive.

not to put it all on your shoulders at all. Just a bit sick of the general doughboys situation at the moment.

Well, that's my experience of the most of the Allies in general to be honest.

I assume you're getting it in the ear from Speirs and Oddball, who can, in all honesty, feck off.

I'm going to be playing Yank for as long as I will play airsoft. I've only moved over to Kraut to even up numbers or play along side the other organisers.

They do indeed tend to moan less.

I'll probably CO at TEHL game. Kraut it up at Varsity, because I don't have Brit kit. My default mode will be US unless I can't wear it for whatever reason.

I'd always ruled out yesterday's game for cashflow reasons, it's just to close to Christmas and with a mortgage of my own it's all a bit tough at this time of year. The petrol and game costs would have tipped onto the wrong side of zero!

Let me know if there's anything you'd like help with.

S

Hi S

actually spiers and oddball are the two that havent shown any interest at all. the problem list is more as follows. (and this is just between you and me)

1. whoswill? aka tom is bloody useless and says yea yea I'll do this and that then does feck all.

2. webby doesnt seem to want to do anything except get bent out of shape about the brits getting special treatment

3. kavster who seems to want to be a loaner instead.

4. barrie who says bugger all on the day then whines and criticises afterwards

5. the other members who go from gung ho to total apathy.

its a bit disappointing as I thought we'd have alot of continued interest and active players but instead the co-organisers arent being much use and the players arent showing much interest so its led me to feel I really cant be bothered if they cant. and being as I originally wanted to be a german(craig wouldnt do it so went yank) its had me considering whether to switch sides.

with a few non american games this year I've bought some german kit (as im not a fan of the british stuff) so poised to make the switch at the moment but not sure what to do.

Yep, I know exactly how you feel. Who's Will's lack of organisational skill and commitment has been noted.

Webby does have a tendency to moan or lose his temper.

TBH, I think we need a few stronger characters on the Yank side. I'm not sure why it doesn't attract those sorts of people.

The amount of times I've got to the end of the day at the end of my tether after constantly trying to gee up people who've paid money to play, then can't be bothered to put the effort in is stupid. It's exhausting.

If you don't mind I'd like to share your thoughts with Chomley, Old Un, Kermit, Yith and Gadge as these concerns all relate to conversations we've had already anyway and it'd be interesting for them to hear your input.

S

Yes by all means please share them with the organisers. I wouldnt normally be overly critical but I love the yank side so to have me thinking of jumping ships pretty bad. I've been trying to be a stronger character as you said to gee them up but by the end of wotan, and especially dday I was ready to lose my rag, as you say they just didnt seem commited to doign anything despite paying for the event they just wanted to sit back and do not alot. Its infuriating. to the point I ended up running around with the brits alot at wotan and dday because at least they had the desire to attack and do things

Spiers and Oddball were playing and from what I saw things went reasonably well...

As for rank etc ... yup flexible is best...

I've actually been thinking about the Sicily game uniform for PBI and how we can make it interesting and more appropriate with what we already have. I think the trick is to keep what we already have and just add in some KD bits... they can be mixed and matched as the wearer desires... I've got some more research to do before posting the info though... its that sort of flexibility that helps!

Eee's from Zummerzet .....them'sall a bit odd downz there ye knows

General comment though , expectation does not always = achievement , and often people just want to be led rather than having to commit to doing something . Teams are about playing with your mates not uniform or weapons IMHO .

I concur!

All good stuff.

I think it is more to do with what Rhys expected the Doughboys thing to achieve

Every single team I have seem come and go at Phoenix (and there have been a lot!) have gone along the lines of:
Group of friends enjoys playing together
Have a cool idea about calling themselves a name
Ask others to join (except they don't want them really, 'cos they aren't mates)
Spend six months arguing and trying to agree on a common uniform/badging/name
Break up after another three months because they have gone to uni / got a girlfriend / got married / got a mortgage/car / got bored

Had they just played as mates they would have had a much more enjoyable nine months airsoft!

As far as I can see the benefit of named groups is that they feel they are not just lone players but a cohesive fighting unit - chaps who know each other well because they have a common uniform.

lol... soz for this, but it sounds like he wanted a team type thing because of how he played along side the brits... there seems to be a simple solution then!

Honestly though Steve, the Yanks did seem a little lost without you yesterday.

There wasn't much of a problem at Wotan because Chommers was there to fill in!

As for the naming etc... it was pretty easy with PBI... Me and Gadge said, "we're doing this and thats the way it is"..

I think Doughboys are trying to organise by committee which is just silly.

Your method seems the best way.

S

Lack of strong leadership... That's the problem.

Yep the first team I ever joined has a constitution which you have ot sign and abide by , including kit and weapons regulations for which you have a year to get up to speed. It also demands a minimum number of games, and a rank comand structure that has remained pretty much unchanged.

As a noob i thought this was the way all milsim a/s teams were run , i now realise its an extreme way of doing things, and we have been accused of being very anal . That said , it works for us, partly because you agree to the discipline at the start , but it's not for most . Several years on the team has had people come and go , but can still field 10-15 players , partly because we are all good mates as well and have other common interests other than softing .

Rupes Wolves Team work on the same lines as well, but you'll struggle if people don't want it .

Yes, if Rhys wants Doughboys to 'work' then he will have to sort it - take charge and not expect anyone else to lift a finger, 'cos by and large they won't.

As we all know, there is very little gratitude in organising stuff, nor can you expect any - if you want to do it then fine, do it, just don't winge!

Right Stephen , pm him back and request he grow some balls .....then we'll sit by and watch Webby get the hump

maybe not eh ?

Heh... yeah Guy, Team Lightfighter tried the same stuff... but to be honest we had far too many vocal loners in the team... Off the top of my head, me and Doc come to mind, but pretty much everybody else in the team as well...

In the end it worked best as a bunch of mates who occasionally did things together well...

The SG4 team that I was in before then, had a structured rank system and that ended up with political disputes within the team and a arguments etc... I don't reckon that's the way to go either. lol!

Have just emailed Rhys to say he should take it where he wants to see it go and see if people follow and if they don't then make a decision to either knock DBs on the head and play as normal or just enjoy the game for what it is without a strict structure.

I reckon it might be an idea to put up a post in General Discussion to invite thoughts about small-unit team structures and see if we can get opinions moving in one direction, be that positive or negative.

I'd rather people turned up and played our games for the fun of it without feeling compelled or pressured to be part of a 'team' that they don't play well with.

It's better to have 10 guys who don't know each other playing and enjoying themselves is a less organised manner than to have 10 guys bitching and arguing about badges and who's in command.

It's weird, but there are some big egos on the Allied side, but not many good leaders or people with committed direction.

S

I don't think posting for views on the forum would be helpful - it's up to group leaders to lead as they see fit.

Canvassing opinions would only imply there is a problem - and there isn't at the moment! There hasn't been any problem except with Rhys's expectations, so I would leave it at that.

I've said this before but 'groups' have the potential to bring division or inclusion. The big benefit it that people like to 'belong' and we all know that working together with chaps you know is the way to go. A group should reinforce this bond (that has been historically lacking on the Allies). However, the moment that groups start splitting or upsetting people is the moment when we remove the concept from the forum.

The fact that Rhys is moaning is an issue with his failing, not anyone else's!

I think the problem is that Doughboys was just created because PBI was... I don't think thats a good reason to do it...

PBI was created purely to encourage players to play Brits and to help them do so. The players have never needed encouragement to play Yanks (for some reason that I just don't understand ).

I get the impression Rhys is just pissed off with people having a negative attitude to what he would like to do but not having any better suggestions.

He's going to have a think about what he wants to do. I just told him to think about it and chat to his comrades about his concerns because if they don't know he's pissed off they can't do anything to help him.

S