Well, we talked vaguely about Leningrad and Stalingrad but now Gadge has brought up the subject (heh, it's not his idea - just co-oincidence 
) how about Berlin?
Die Glocke was members only, so restrictions in place
Op Aerial is Germans v Brits
E&E is Germans v very limited Brit/US
So a Berlin scenario would give us Brit/US v Russian v German (so overall scheme is Germans against the rest). This gives us an opportunity to increase player numbers and be reasonably confident that places would be taken.
Plenty of Brit and US players. Some proper Ruskies. Plenty of Germans with Volksturm to balance the other side numbers.
Heh, out with the MP44s!!
Ticks all the boxes for me, whatchafink?
Yep, good call on the Volksturm we can open it up to people without much kit.....
Good idea.
Except that my history might be rubbish 
- I thought Allies were pushing in from one side and the Russians from the other but it seems 'Battle of Berlin' as such was German v Russian.
I'll have to do some reading to see how all troops can be utilised.
Hmm, true. There was an agreement to leave Berlin to the Russians, much to the dismay of the Americans!
Berlin was Ruskies Vs Germans. Nobody else.
However, leaving Berlin to the Commies was actually a smart move from the western allies point of view. Far more time for looting all those useful industrial and research facilities............
When we were a Kingdom it was run by a King
When we were an Empire it was run by an Empress
Now we're a country we're run by a..........
Heh, I know this having given it 30 seconds thought!
The Russkie troops attacking Berlin would be proper troops and we would never get a full side of these, a full side of Germans would be no problem so no need for Volksturm.
Therefore a Russian side would have to be Red Army + partisans which dictates a scenario in Russia itself.
Unless you think it's possible to get a side of Red Army + loads of brown greatcoats, in which case Berlin is fine - could we get 20 or 20+?
(Side note: did the Allies ever fight the Germans with Russian fighting the Germans from the other direction?)
Not as far as I know. The Russians took Dresden which is the most south-easterly city in Germany. Up north perhaps? Rostock?
"Eisenhower resisted British pressure to drive on to Berlin. He saw no point in taking casualties to capture ground that, in line with earlier agreements between Allied leaders, would have to be relinquished to the Soviets once hostilities ceased. His objective remained to capture or destroy the remnants of the German armed forces. The Soviets massed 1.2 million men and 22,000 pieces of artillery and on April 16 began their assault upon the city. As that battle raged, British, American, and Soviet forces neared previously negotiated stop lines along the Elbe and Mulde Rivers. The First Army made contact with Soviet troops on April 25 around Torgau. Meanwhile, as the Third Army entered Czechoslovakia and British troops reached the Baltic, the Russians moved through the streets of Berlin. On April 30, 1945, Hitler committed suicide in a bunker beneath the ruins of his capitol."
http://www.worldwariihistory.info/WWII/Germany.html
Looks like Torgau is the only crossover point.
http://www.usmlm.org/home/russians/wwii-torgau.htm
Not any resistance there to speak of.
Righty-ho!
So, the Fall of Berlin is do-able if we can get 20 chaps with Red Army uniform or just brown greatcoat (+ hat maybe) - we know we can get 20 Germans.
Exactly the same goes for a Leningrad or Stalingrad scenario except that we can be even slacker on the Russian outfits as a street fighter look would be fine.
I'm very tempted to plump for a Berlin game though - an all-brown Russian army would look great plus we have the hook of as many MP44s as you like!
If we go for Berlin, then we gotta go large on the pyro. Loads of "bang in the box" with debris showers - the full fackin' works.
When we were a Kingdom it was run by a King
When we were an Empire it was run by an Empress
Now we're a country we're run by a..........
i would be keen to keep it reasonably pure in a historical sense. The US did agree to halt at the Elbe, they did . Patton didn't like it but thats all history .
Moscow Winter 1941
Stalingrad Winter 1942
Kharkov 1941-1943
Lenningrad ?
Would all do for Russki vs Germans , with varying dgrees of kit requirements. Personally like the idea of Moscow or Stalingrad.
Berlin 1945 ( date would be wrong Russians didn;t reach Berlin till March 1945 , and the battle was pretty one sided )
If you wanted to do US vs Germans in a city the fighting around Aachen was very fierce and took place in December 44. then again it just runs the risk of "Urban 101 vs SS ...." Not too interested in doing this if we can do something else . Edit- this was earlier than I remembered - Sept Oct 44 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Aachen
My vote goes for Stalingrad ...why ?
1 there are two good popular films and one good book about the subject to enthuse people , only Downfall recently is about Berlin , and not really about the fighting ....Beevor book about it is pants too .
2 it's an iconic struggle , people know the story and will buy into it, and hopefully buy kit for it . Once they have the kit a Berlin becomes easier .
3 the battle was open for both sides to win , unlike Berlin where the end result was never questioned .
More interesting battle, and better for marketing IMHO .
No MP44s then - if you want to be accurate about the date then the guns (airsoft is about guns) must be even stricter. That won't go down well!
I'm not hugely fussed about date coincidence - if it happens, it happens. For me a Russian/Stalingrad/Leningrad/Berlin game just needs to be cold, so December is great! 
I don't really want US in the game at all - my flash of stupid inspiration at the start of this thread was because I was trying to think of a way we could ensure a full team against the Germans. We just can't do it with Red Army alone - I'm certain we won't get more than 12 in Red Army kit.
A battle over an industrial estate isn't in anyway a fight to win a complete battle - I thought we had left that behind at BotB1. The fight is a localised action, the outcome of which is open to either side to 'win' (if winning is your thing).
Take your point about MP44s.. however as one of the few people who has one , ...er so what ? There were few MP40s at the first games, didn't spoil it IMHO . Shirely we define our event by suspension of disbelief?...there won't be many M/Nagins or PPSHs either ....
Not bothered to do another US game for it myself either . Stalingrad would allow much more "civvies" without it being silly , like Bryansk did.
Stalingrad, not fighting the whole battle is correct , but working known elements into it helps is stop being a SISK in a disused factory surely. Datewise , agreed it's not a must have (DDay in november sorta worked) , but deffo a nice to have .
Operation Uranus
By 23rd Nov encirclement was complete so Saturday 28th Nov would be an accurate game date for a Russian probe from the North into German Stalingrad defences!
http://www.stalingrad.net/
http://users.telenet.be/stalingrad/maps/stalingrad_map_12.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Uranus
http://www.theeasternfront.co.uk/Battles/operationuranus.htm
http://www.bhi-online.de/STALINGR_7.swf
Uranus gets my vote completely .
Stalingrad is a complete evocative battle , there's plenbty of films about it , and the emotional buy in should be good .
Loosen up the Russian kit requirements( hat & coat) , plus civvies... plus possibly a rumoured PPSH cheapsoft coming soon ,and I reckon we should fill 20 no probs .
