If you read the linked article JD you will see he was burned out on a number of occasions normally from accidents...its a miracle he survived and ended up in the US Army!!!!
What a read - very interesting 
To assume I would ever dream of using a nazi salute is extremely unfair unfounded and unwise
I didn't assume anything, you asked the question - I provided illustrative points! (And not specifically aimed at you either, there are other people who read the forum too
)
As you infer, going down the route of banning portrayal because of who did what to whom is somewhat ridiculous. Fact is as long as we (the airsoft community, much as the reenactment community) steer clear of the political aspect then all's good. Frankly depicting anyone shooting anyone else could be construed as obscene in itself - but hey, we rationalise it and call it a hobby and live with it...
Agree entirely......and Im not going to get into any drawn out and painful discussions on the subject of who does what to whom and why!!!
Back to the uniform of the GD.......would many have still been wearing the Panzermutze or 'Schutzmütze' by 43 onwards?? Was it a sign of being an old sweat?? They look very smart but cant see them offering much protection!!
http://cgi.ebay.de/PANZERMUTZE-WEHRMACHT-PANZER-SDKFZ-SCHUTZMUTZE-60_W0QQitemZ370049334269QQihZ024QQcategoryZ18671QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%2527Schutzm%25C3%25BCtze%2527.%2B%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3D G"> http://66.102.9.104/translate_c?hl=en&s ... f%26sa%3DG
And here...all you ever wanted to know about Panzer uniforms but were afraid to ask!!
Hmm loads of points here.
First of all Doog is definitely not political/right wing or a closet 'sympathiser' as far as i know 
If you want to do 2nd ss then do it mate, there were very few SS units that *didnt* commit some sort of atrocity (to my knowledge 9th and 10th are pretty blemish free as in my article in this months AI). If we said don't do 2nd because of oradour we'd have to say no to 1st for Dunkirk and Russia, scrap Prinz Eugen for their 'excesses' in the Balkans and slate Totenkopf for their original recruit intake etc etc...
Personally I do Hohenstaufen (9th) as this is what 90 per cent of the lads in KGSS do and i thought if i'm going to do SS then i may as well fit in with the bigger group so games look more authentic with a large group of similarly badged guys. (my panzer kit is GD and my heer kit generic for the same reasons).
Heer panzer wraps have a slanted over wrap where as SS ones have a more traditional double breasted cut. however you can use either by 43 as ss and heer often used what they could get hold of.
As a SNCO a side cap is 'right' but you could get away with a peaked crusher type cap (1935 other ranks service cap actually) or in combat an m43 type ski cap. Not sure about the SS but army peaked caps were field grey not black.
"I think we are in rats' alley - Where the dead men lost their bones."
Back to the uniform of the GD.......would many have still been wearing the Panzermutze or 'Schutzmütze' by 43 onwards?? Was it a sign of being an old sweat?? They look very smart but cant see them offering much protection!!
http://cgi.ebay.de/PANZERMUTZE-WEHRMACHT-PANZER-SDKFZ-SCHUTZMUTZE-60_W0QQitemZ370049334269QQihZ024QQcategoryZ18671QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%2527Schutzm%25C3%25BCtze%2527.%2B%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3D G"> http://66.102.9.104/translate_c?hl=en&s ... f%26sa%3DG
The Panzermutze was worn over a detachable crash liner
It was but look at the link and it shows some wearing it for best as a beret!!! Rather large I know but with a bit of kicking about and shrinking and some oil stains I think it would look good...either that or as Gadge says an M43 ski cap....
Ah the beret. yeah thats virtually extinct by the start of the russian campaign and as del says it has a crash liner in it,thats why it looks so big - it is detachable though.
Discontinued in the winter of 39-40 so only really good for a very early war look.
"I think we are in rats' alley - Where the dead men lost their bones."
HMMMM all this talk of Panzer's and those nice black uniform's .............................................
to be continued 
Not until you've built a tank, you don't!
You've got nothing to ein, zwei, drei, vier
Yeah, it does look a bit odd with no german armour
I did the panzer officer loadout for a drinking get up for evenings and the odd special mission character in scenarios.
Unfortunately the smallest vehicle you can justify a panzer uniform for is a 222.
*luckily* you can make then out of landrovers...
"I think we are in rats' alley - Where the dead men lost their bones."
Hmm loads of points here.
First of all Doog is definitely not political/right wing or a closet 'sympathiser' as far as i know
Don't think anyone suggested he was And frankly anyone can believe what they want as far as i'm concerned as long a they keep it to themselves and don't jepardise the rest of us .
I still have probs with SS as a whole ... I went round the deserted buildings of Oradour Sur glane last summer ...left a distinctly sour taste in the mouth when you see the beasteality that went on .
We tell ourselves the 9th were better , and I'll go along with that to a point , still doesn't stop me extending an opinion .
Too many SS , too few Heer ....here IMHO .
You can argue the point next time I wheel out the Standartenfuhrers uniform for the social 
End of the day , do what yers like Doug, no censorship here or at games
Too many SS , too few Heer ....here IMHO.
I have a Heer Uniform - pity it just made sure Kavster made it to his 'holding Cell' at the last game
Too many SS , too few Heer ....here IMHO.
I have a Heer Uniform - pity it just made sure Kavster made it to his 'holding Cell' at the last game
Why Derek, that sounds almost sexual! 
only in your blurred eyes at Bryansk !! I did almost leave you in the camp chair that you were in while everyone else chatted and discussed WW2 etc
Is that camp with a big
I don't need to know what the chaps on here get up to anymore, my mind is sullied and will never be the same after tonight 
So no to the Panzermutze then..... 
...want a mid war look really so will get the M43.
And a lot of people choose to forget that the Wehrmacht were heavily involved in helping out their SS chums with 'special operations'............
Let's not get into this "war crimes" business... I personally won't do SS, but as SteD said, his grandfather was saved by W-SS medics. And plenty of Heer were complicant in war crimes against civilians too.
You've got nothing to ein, zwei, drei, vier
All I'll say is having done a shedload of research on the 9th and also on Arnhem the only 'war crime' I came across was British airborne shooting wounded SS lads. Pains me to say it but they were fueled with vitriol and propaganda and believed the 'krauts' would shoot them if they surrendered so in the initial stages of market garden gave no quarter to the germans.
Once the SS started treating British wounded and having cease fires to recover the dead and dying they sorted it out.
"I think we are in rats' alley - Where the dead men lost their bones."
17th SS were victims as well of Allied massacres
Some of the troops of Götz von Berlichingen may have been victims of war crimes themselves. In 1976, the remains of about 200 men from the I Battalion, 38th SS Regiment were discovered and positively identified, apparently shot at close range by Allied troops and buried in a mass grave by Nuremberg, suggesting that a massacre had taken place. As with the Graignes allegations, no substantiation of the incident has been proven.
History is written by the victors isn't it.
I used to know a former chindit who filled a bunker with Jap pows and threw grenades in until the screaming stopped as they simply couldn't take them with them or risk letting them go.
Nobody put him on trial.
You'd be hard pressed to find an armed force with any substantial history that *hasnt* done something immoral or contrary to the rules of warfare, i think its just the institutionalised scale of it (that and being the defeated party) that makes Germany's so different.
"I think we are in rats' alley - Where the dead men lost their bones."
Soviet Union anyone!
To the victor the spoils, thats normally my line.
