Just come back from Arnhem having had a great time, took the girlfriend to the pub, she told me that a friend had asked where I was that weekend had told him that I had been WW2 reenacting as a German, apperently he was quite outraged. Tonight in the pub he completly blanked me. Now this chap is not a close friend, hopefully they know me well enough to know that I'm no Nazi.
Now Im sure a lot of you more expereinced guys have encounted something similar, what your method of dealing with this lack of understanding? To be honest I felt like decking him....probably not the best way 
The ignorant and stupid are all around. Let them have their indignance. It does not trump your knowledge.
aka Stigroadie
AFRA
better by design
"Truth is a shining goddess, always veiled, always distant, never wholly approachable, but worthy of all the devotion of which the human spirit is capable. "
"So you want to do the german" in the kit guide has got to be the best way to explain it to someone. Now for Heer and Luftwaffe I believe they were mainly conscripts so not all believe in the Nazi cause and I think thats general knowledge for most people. SS I can see why people will be mad. Either way I'm open minding (Atleast I hope I am)
Unfortunately you can't please everyone. Best I can say is try talking to this guy and find out why he's outraged at you playing as jerry. Try to see it from his point of veiw and explain why you personal do it.
I've been ask by my dad why I choose to got down the german path. Now I can see his concern, probely fear I might get jumped by an angry mob. The reason I wear the kit is down to the fact I love the uniforms, weaponry and there tanks. They were very advance for that time.
As for me I just have to be me to get a bad reaction from random people, sometimes I think I'm more importan than the road!! 
Best of luck, hope it works out for ya
**Edit: It's the "Dem Nartsees is EEEvil" artical I found through the kit guide
It's the "Dem Nartsees is EEEvil" artical I found through the kit guide
I can heartily reccommend that particular article
It depends on who you're dealing with. As Poacher says, the easiest way is to let them remain ignorant and if this guy is not a close friend I probably wouldn't bother.
If I get questioned on it I start by explaining that we don't stand around shouting Sieg Heil, we don't think Hitler was misunderstood and we don't fantasize about Germany winning the war. It's a hobby and the events are games. It's not a lifestyle choice 
If he's got a problem with reenacting 'war' in general, then there's very little you can do. If it's specifically Germans, then ask them if he doesn't have a problem with people dressing up as the Allied forces, who are they going to fight against? It's an argument I've used successfully a couple of times. The war had two sides, all we're really doing at the end of the day is dressing up in fancy dress and playing soldiers.
Dressing up in German kit doesn't make me a fascist, any more than dressing up in Russian kit makes me a rampant Stalinist, or wearing an Iron Maiden T-shirt doesn't make me Bruce Dickinson. It's a prop.
Frankly, spending the weekend pretending to kill people is pretty indefensible in itself. If you can justify that (and I struggle) then justifying portraying a German soldier will be a piece of piss!
Heh, I recall our discussion on Friday night where your position was that children portraying Hitler Youth wasn't at all right whereas I didn't have any issue with it. People draw their own moral lines in the sand and make justifications for their own moral decisions and changing someone's opinion/belief is very hard, if not impossible (there is always a "yes, but..."). So personally I wouldn't go out of my way to reason with the chap unless it cropped up in conversation. Even then I suspect the best you can do is explain that what we do is without political context or bias and just reliving the dreadful history of country's leaders forcing people to do things they would much rather not, given the choice.
Frankly, spending the weekend pretending to kill people is pretty indefensible in itself. If you can justify that (and I struggle) then justifying portraying a German soldier will be a piece of piss!
I recall one of the marshals at Grange Farm who had signed up for the PBI event going out of his way to write a post saying that he'd expected us to all be far-right knobbers and was happily surprised when we all turned out to be decent chaps.
If it's specifically Germans, then ask them if he doesn't have a problem with people dressing up as the Allied forces, who are they going to fight against? It's an argument I've used successfully a couple of times
Never had a problem with friends so far, though this is the line that i often use if someone does question me - it seems to do the trick!
Now Im sure a lot of you more expereinced guys have encounted something similar, what your method of dealing with this lack of understanding? To be honest I felt like decking him....probably not the best way
Having had to sell a load of very good German kit a few years back having encountered sheer blind ignorance and stupidity at work, I speak from extensive experience on the subject of dickheads objecting to us playing the "evil nazi hordes". Nowadays, I just tell them to f**k off! Works for me. Anyone who demands that you justify yourself to them is not worth the bother and, is also a fascist themself anyway (as are most of the pc brigade). As C-W said, it's strange that people have a problem with dressing up as Germans but, miss the wider point that we go around "killing" other people! (Something that, correct me if I'm wrong, the "good guys" allies also did!).
When I want your opinion - I'll tell you what it is!
You could always try Kevins method?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxmUKVrT0iI
Being offended by something does not give you any rights, it's just another whine.
aka Stigroadie
AFRA
better by design
"Truth is a shining goddess, always veiled, always distant, never wholly approachable, but worthy of all the devotion of which the human spirit is capable. "
it's strange that people have a problem with dressing up as Germans but, miss the wider point that we go around "killing" other people! (Something that, correct me if I'm wrong, the "good guys" allies also did!).
Nail on the head pete.
We were having a chat about this on the weekend cos i've had a similar run in when i tired to help a bloke out on a wargames forum who had painted some brits beautifully but didnt know about blanco so had done their webbing all light sand (they were painted for europe). I left him a reply telling him about blanco and how it was easy not to spot it in b&w pics and was generally friendly and helpful.
He had seen pics of me in german kit on another thread in 'off topic' about re-enacting and went off on one callng me a nazi c*nt and all sorts. While the bloke made himself look a total prick on the forum (as i pointed out I do east germans as well so I've a communist every other weekend using his logic) it did reveal how ignorant most people are.
We were talking about chindits in the van on aturdaymorning with stig and some of the guys and i knew a chindit who was in the south staffs. He said they never took prisoners (they simply couldnt) and once when they had captured a large supply column they pushed all the japs into bunkers and "threw grenades in til the screaming stopped" but the great british public will never believe the 'plucky brits' ever did that in wwii... and dont get me started on Americans... they have *never* adhered to any decent standards 
And even in europe, i recall reading a first hand account from a 9th ss lad at arnhem... his mate had been shot in the back and was crawling across the street to get out of the firefight, he saw a brit para aim at him, watch him haul himself up a low wall and then shoot him just as he was about to roll to safety....
Its a nasty hellish, brutish business and while i have no problem playing 'filmsim' and playing for 'playing army' entertainment its why the 'milsim' element of airsoft winds me up a bit.. most of real wa nobody in their rightmind would want to simulate as its either incrdibly boring or hideously awful.
But going back to the point, yeah it *may* be wrong to run around an 'play war' and glorify th ehorrible but if you're going to have that moral objection then you best not watch any war films, play any shooty computer games and go and find some non aggresive, non competative wholseome hobby like 'shareball' .
"I think we are in rats' alley - Where the dead men lost their bones."
Heh, everyone has double standards to some degree or another - perhaps because they haven't thought it through or even thought about thinking it through or thought it through and got stuck on the thinking bit or thought it through and came to no conclusion.
Murders in the UK make dreadful and shocking news and we rightfully are appalled. Adultery is morally indefensible. But it seems to be perfectly OK to watch TV show after TV show (or novel after novel) about murders and adultery as some sort of entertainment. (TV soaps, hospital dramas, cop shows, murder mysteries, period dramas etc etc.)
LOL, sometimes it pays not to over-think things! Playing 'goodies and baddies' works just as well as 'reenacting past events'. (I use the latter to justify (to myself) what we do at weekends. )
if this guy is not a close friend I probably wouldn't bother
Me neither, although I have been accused of being both a Nazi and a Communist, so I must be doing something right or wrong
Funnily enough I think 're-enactment' is generally more respectable than 'WW2 airsoft', as most of the genral public have some idea what re-enactors do whereas they they often fairly clueless about airsoft and usually seem to think it equates to 'gun nut', couple that with 'nazi' uniforms... Anyway, I usually describe what I do as re-enactment these days, to little adverse comment.
My boss knows what I do and thinks it is hilarious, she even suggested coming into work in uniform, but I didn't think that was a great idea. She is a Morris Dancer though. 
Cheers
Martin
"Mistakes in the initial deployment cannot be rectified" Helmuth von Moltke
Toys: AGM MP40, Cyma M1A1, TM M14/G43/SVT40, TM VSR/K98, SnS No. 4, ASG Sten, Ppsh.
Arnhem3,Gumrak,Campoleone
if this guy is not a close friend I probably wouldn't bother
.. Anyway, I usually describe what I do as re-enactment these days, to little adverse comment.
Cheers
Martin
As with several convos this weekend t really does seem that waht we do actually contains much more re-enacting than traditional 're-enacting via the usual blank firing public battle format.
Take the last weekend for example, 100 guys turn up to an event, all agree to limit their kit/unit/weapons to an agreed standard and so three credible units take to the field for each 'side' and agree to follow orders and plans from a high command. Over the course of the weekend some guys get shot befor they even know whats going on, some guys hardly fire a shot but are hiding for their 'lives', some guys attack a position that they feel they have no hope of clearing because they are under orders. Contacts usually happen at around 50 metres in the dense woodland, swampy watercourses and undulating hills with trench systems.
Compare that to the time when 30 guys in the uniforms of about 29 different regiments and a jeep attacked about 30 'germans' in a mix of all sorts of odd stuff across a shrubbery in front of a bemused publlic audience. No one seemed to be hit unless they were shot repeatedly from about four foot away, smoke was cunningly used to cover a mighty advance ot contact of about 50 metres and everyone fought to the 'death' or until they ranout of blanks as you couldnt *not* fire the bangy guns could you....
Which one of the two gives an insight into WWII, which ones is the ludicrous option.
As Poacher i think said, there isnt much 'acting' in re-enacting.
"I think we are in rats' alley - Where the dead men lost their bones."
I would like to point out that on Saturday afternoon the Poles actually routed. The survivors were literally running away, confused and disorientated for their life.
Every time we tried to re-group, we were under fire before we could organise ourselves, so we ran for our lives.
It was great, a wonderful, exhilarating break from the tedium of 'last man, last bullet' silliness.
I would like to point out that on Saturday afternoon the Poles actually routed. The survivors were literally running away, confused and disorientated for their life.
Well, seeing as you redeemed yourselves on the Sunday, we'll hold off on the court martial for the time being. 
court marshal? nah, we need more of it!
I actually always had Sosabowski in the back of my mind, that the lives of my men were worth more than glory, or foolhardy missions, and that I would refuse to sacrifice them needlessly.
Thankfully British command was very competent, and so I had no need to attempt to exercise the 'independent' part of our unit title.
i had a miss fortune of members of my family disgusted with me wearing German uniform
they even sent a page full about the Nazi race blah blah blah got bored after reading 2 lines so i removed her from my
friends list on facebook never spoke to her since plus the other member has told me i'm banned from taking
any pictures of me in my gear in her back garden
so i have decided sod the bloody lot of them, don't give a flying toss what anyone thinks now
As for the war is terrorable but airsoft/wargames are fun. The way I see it airsoft, wargames and computer games is fun due to the fact theres no lose of live. Confilt seems to be apart of human nature and playing Hello kitty Island Adventures just doesn't seem to forfil the fun factor
Everyones there own person and have the own ideas. Tho take what everyones said onboard its all good advice
The ignorant and stupid are all around. Let them have their indignance. It does not trump your knowledge.
Sage words.
And CW is right I am not comfortable with the idea of children portraying the Hitler Youth, yet was happy to portray the SS this weekend, perhaps hypocritical? I think we all realise that although many years have passed the subject is still emotive in many ways and although none of us set out to offend people it still happens.
I suppose I have been quite lucky really, most people know now I reenact the Germans and only two people have asked me 'why the Germans?' and both of them have accepted my reasoning.
If this guy wont accept it I will not be particularly bothered,but he spent the whole night giving me the evil eye, and for obvious reasons if that happens a second time a confrontation will occur. But I will try to remain calm and reasoned.