the thing was gadge, we (PBI) can do drill, no-one else there ( with a few exceptions) could, and it just made it look amature. add to the fact that the blokes doing the instructing were arseholes, and it just smacked of people shouting and puffing for no effect. if your doing re-enacting of military personel, you should at least be able to do the very basics(like drill). the navy re-enactors all gave an army salute..... 
.i am no expert, but we kicked ass.
Don't lose sight of the fact that it was for public entertainment and those reenactors present came from all shades of the reenactment spectrum and were there for their own reasons with their own agendas - the public were entertained, Crich got a shed load of punters through the gate and we had a good weekend. Job done.
i agree totally dave, but i think if your playing a part, learn your part. how long did it take you to learn the basics of drill? about 2 hours total? i bet by now, you have the rifle drill down too. its not a big thing to know your subject , we were not word perfect, but i would say 9 out of 10. we can do better with a bit of effort, and we will. i know , we are the type of obsessive anal compulsives that wont settle for second rate 
.not knocking anyone, just saying put a bit of research in, if you playing a sailor, salute blank hand, not open hand.
Aye, I'm not disagreeing Nige. But in one way it puts paid to the mis-conception some airsofters have with reenactors. The reality is 'they' (I should say 'we') can be shabby and shite as well as pukka and perfect - there is all shades of enthusiasm, knowledge and effort!
(And no, my rifle drill is exactly as we left it - pathetic. I have resolved to absolve myself from anything to do with it. I can just about do putting one foot in front of the other, beyond that I'm a lost cause. Next time I'll just be an attached photographer or sommat...)
, no you wont dave, i dont think you will be beaten by a few movements and numbers.
your right,there are degrees and levels, i wont ever be a stitch counter, but i will strive , that if we are doing something, we will be as good as humanly possible without going too far, kicking the arse out of it and losing the fun.
:rofl: , no you wont dave, i dont think you will be beaten by a few movements and numbers.
your right,there are degrees and levels, i wont ever be a stitch counter, but i will strive , that if we are doing something, we will be as good as humanly possible without going too far, kicking the arse out of it and losing the fun.
And perhaps there lies the problem. We do this for fun, I'm not really that interested in loosing that fun element. CW, re Dog Co. you are correct and really we are getting better and better. I won't speak for any other member but I am the anal type who wants to look the part, but I really could do without the attitude of SOME re enactors.
No no debate is of any use without learning something and I for one, after some thought am closer to Re enacting than mainstream airsoft.
its a real epiphany moment isnt it pat,
Yup (wanders off muttering bloody re enactor, airsofting buggery)
same happened to me. after fighting a very interesting corner about being eliteist/inclusive, i had it pointed out to me that ;
1) we dress as close as posible to ww2 soldiers, and go all out to make it credible.
2)we re-fight ww2 battles that took place(all the "re-enactment "battles i have seen tend to have all allied, i.e. brits, yanks, russians, oz, ghurkas etc, all in the same battle! against all the axis !!!!.) ours are limited to the units that where there. ( although we do have to make exception for a certain US airborne unit that came late, only really fought in three battles and no fucker was interested in before spielberg )
3)we love what we do enough to believe we can do it properly.
never seen a modern airsoft day where they go all out to look the same or have an hours drill. ....... you decied.
And now you whine about other people's lack of ability to do drill and re-enact...
Yup... you've made the switch over now, mate... 
Oh and re-enactors also do what they do for fun... Why else would they do it?
Even the most die hard airsofter, not re-enactor at the PBI training day admitted he actually enjoyed the drill. The reason... we made it fun!
Funnily enough, unbeknown to my Sgt but seen by Che and Helga, as we marched out of camp for the last time I actually did the hand on hip mincing step. Hehe, that was after he told me to put my fag out while on parade.
Oh dear, I said mincing and fag in the same paragraph. Cue Headshot ripost. 
I agree with Nige.
We dress up as soldiers from the 1940s, so either:
A: don't do any of the military guff (which is fine), or
B: do it right and do it well.
Option C: which is to have a half-arsed go and do it badly is a quite literally a waste of time.
I'm looking forward to learning some of this stuff one day (I'n not a re-enactor tho)
Hahah
Personally I think we do drill at our training days for a few reasons and one of them is the reason the army do it.
namely it fosters unit esprit de corps and the feeling of 'being as one'.
I had to study the bloody books to learn drill as a PSI attached to the QRLs cadets so I sweated blood learning it.
However i'm shite at doing it but i will try.
Its unnecessary for airsoft but for our purposes on a training day it fulfils the following jobs.
1. cameraderie and unit building
2. a warm up before running around like nutters meaning less pulled muscles
3. when we do events elsewhere we are not caught short or embarrassed by parades or appells.
No one at a PBI do *has* to do it but I think we have all gained form the 30 - 45 minutes we spend a day at the start of a training day doing it, it also helps you get into the mindset of pretending to be a soldier.
Now on the flipside when we've been to proper re-enactment shows its pulled us out the fire twice when we've had parades sprung on us, it was less daunting for us and also we aquitted ourselves quite well. Although i would nt be so gauche as to suggest we were the best there - we didnt faff it up!
I personally was very proud of our turn out, attitude and begaviour at Crich.
To get rounds of applause and cheers after we finished our fighting patrol through the street was unexpected, equally to get a chorus of laughter and clapping after our pub parade vindicated what we do.
We entertained the public *and* we acted like citizen soldiers of 1943/44.
What you have to remember is that 90 per cent of the soldiers who faught post d-day were not proffesional soldiers, they were conscripts with less military experience than I (and god knows i have precious little) and probably far less experience of being 'in the field' than your average airsofter.
Their drill/turnout/fieldcraft was often lacking compared ot the proffesional armies of today... learning to emulate their standards takes a few hours of your time and a mental 'switch' to start thinking like Sam Jones, the local butcher conscipted into the Staffordshire regiment in 1941 and then asked to 'volunteer' for glider landing for an extra shilling a day... with a bit of luck this Hitler business will be over by christmas and you can get back to the shop!
"I think we are in rats' alley - Where the dead men lost their bones."
Drill-3 years of re-enacting, a brief spell in the TA cadets and every saturday in my garden with a broom stick rifle and I still near fall over on the command about turn
Me too...
its why whenever possible I take drill.... and not execute it.
"I think we are in rats' alley - Where the dead men lost their bones."
Do you lot know how much like re-enactors you sound?
Nah - kidding (well - part kidding )
I have read 9 pages of some of the most sensible, erudite and refreshing material to be had on a forum for the last 5 years! And all without an argument - presenting differing views which were DISCUSSED and it seems everyone listened......
Now - most know me - I've been a conventional re-enactor for......... Jeeze - got me first uniform from Jochen Peiper in 44! Anyway - digression mode off........ I can tell you that your opinions of the old school are more or less spot on. Cliquey, elitist, stilted, anal, dated, antiquated, blah blah blah - but not in EVERY case..... there are some who recognise change is necessary, change can be good and change is vital for the lifeblood of the hobby.
You don't need a long drawn out monolgue from me about "re-enactment" as it don't take an Einstein to figure it out.... It's pretty much been said. I saw what you are doing some time ago and I was VERY interested - from a selfish point of view because what you do has much to offer what we/they do........ It's just that a lot of the poor sods don't recognise it yet. Strangely enough I'm not concieted enough to say that what re-enactors do has much to offer you....... Why? Because the trad hobby has been in place for years, it has become rather stagnant and to be honest (and not derogatory) anyone can splash a few shekels, obtain their favourite Action Man uniform and blob about looking Gucci........
What I find refreshing here is that the majority of players (if I may call you/us that) have looked at the trad hobby positively and embraced many aspects, either wittingly or unwittingly. Remeber - THERE IS NO RULE BOOK FOR RE-ENACTING! Only a load of conventions and unwritten codes...... It's all rather old boy and heirarchical........ I speak from a top down viewpoint and can say it is tough to break in, If you start out "wrong" then it's a battle to get "right", there is a HUGE amount of "them" and "us" and frankly it's not doing and never has done the hobby any good. What I see in CiA and PBI is a movement to enjoy a new hobby whilst combining elements of an old one into it for enhancement. From there grows an interest and that interest leads on to a deeper reason to do what you do. The curiousity then kicks in and players begin to want toa ctually do mad things like sleep in a trench or eat corned beef has out of aluminium tins!!!!! Lo! Thou are "re-enacting"!!!
For me - what sets the CiA/PBI pastime apart is the private battle. For decades I've endured grown men grumbling and mumbling and yelling at each other "I GOT YOU - TAKE YOUR HAT OFF" and frankly it's farcical! The privates aren't scripted as to the outcome (to correct a small misnomer from earlier in the thread) but Damn! if the Yanks or Brits lose (or even start to) they scream like liddle piggies! So along comes airsoft, with the ability to reach out and touch someone - and to make the private battle a minute bit nearer to what we want to achieve - The skill and luck of a man can now be pitted against his adversary - You can see and feel when some joe gets whacked..... No mroe "I GOT YOU NER NER NER!" from slightly pudgy, balding 40 somethings - Now you can land a hit on a geezer and he has to go - honourably. You folks then added in "film sim" - something I personally found very clever and a good way to base a day around something that is predictable but loosely adaptable. Shame is I am so busy I never get time to attend one so I can't comment on anything actual as it were. But the precept is there and the results, from evidence here, are very, very satisfactory.
What is happening seems to be a process of natural progression - For God's sake don't get drawn into and bogged down with the entrneched attitudes and petty snobbery that exists (or is percieved to exist) in trad re-enactment. Please - do what you do and keep the modern approach going. CW and his team are doing a job that needs no explaining - It is a good job and is working - Results speak far louder than words. I've not mentioned our organisation - Don't think I need to - but we too are "guerrillasof the re-enactment world" and we are slowly changing many aspects of what is done and how. Early on we decided - "standards" are not the be all and end all - So some twozzock tells me my socks are the wrong colour........And? It's people, their attitude adn more importantly, their passion that we want to capture. We decided to give the "little person" as much air as the big fish......... and the big fish hate us for it. Coolio! Marsha mentioned that groups would not accept her. Can I be honest and say I rejoiced when we got our first Asian member, I smiled broadly when we got our first female member and Oh how I raised my eyes skywards when Marsha's application landed on the door mat!!!!!! 
All were accepted without a moment's hesitation - Why? because regardless of colour, gender, race, religion or orientation, as long as our applicants fill the criteria of "Active in 20th Century Re-enactment and Living HIstory" - the key word being ACTIVE - they are IN! Who the F*&% are "they" to tell us who can and who can't?????? WE CAN AND THAT'S AN END TO IT!
Folks - You are re-enactors by "their" standards - You do exactly what "they" do. and in many cases I have seen recently - better than a lot fo "them" - But you do something else, something extra - and believe me - it's going to grow...........
SO my last words on this post are these - Please - don't see "Them and us" - just carry on doing your thing at your own pace and in you own time and under the guidance and care of those who already "lead you" (term loosely implied). Let it develop naturally - and do NOT get drawn in to rivalry, bitterness and competition - And woe betide the male chicken impersonator who engages in snobbery!!!!!!
Does it really matter what the label is? The activity and the quality of that activity mark you out as something special - A new breed.
LOOK! I ham now four meggle man!
A001
Thanks PD - nice to get an "outside" view from an experienced reenactor. I just know that quite a few "trad" reenactors would love airsoft, if they only gave it a try.
You've got nothing to ein, zwei, drei, vier
* stands to attention with a tear in his eye as in the back ground ,jerusalem plays* thanks pd, thats a great post.
Yes, excellent summing up there. And he managed it without mentioning the 'A' word! :lol
Who knows, there may be a coming together of the disciplines some day soon, now that would be something... 
really enjoyed reading your post Paul
