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Latest 'threat' to airsofting

 
(@stanley)
Estimable Member

What are peoples opinions on the proposed removal of the airsoft exemption allowing 1.3j for auto and 2.5j for single shot ?
If it goes through the Lords we will be limited to 1j, anything over would be treated as a firearm, so useless for airsoft.
http://www.ukapu.org.uk/about/frequentl ... questions/



Quote
Topic starter Posted : 31/08/2016 8:28 pm
dadio
(@dadio)
Famed Member

It was 1j at the beginning and as long as its a level playing field then its no big deal ,I'm pretty sure that 2.5 for semi is a fairly dodgy interpretation of the current rules even with a min engagement distance, its over the min lethal energy set after recent testing so sites are taking chances anyway ,in the WW2 scene bolt action rifles are rarely played over the 350fps anyway ,virtually no sniper rifles are ever allowed in games so going from 350fps to 328fps will be fairly painless other than the faf of changing springs etc.

armoury
m1a1 Thompson,sten mk2,mp40,stg44,sterling,mk2 bren gun,lee Enfield no4 mk1,Mauser Kar98, Walther ppk,smith and Weston m10 and Mauser m712
Give me a big enough hammer and a place to stand and I could fix the world.
i'll kill a man in a fair fight or if i think he's going to start a fair fight or over a woman or.......
a problem shared is a problem halved ,but an advantage shared is no advantage at all
if a job's not worth doing then its certainly not worth doing well





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Posted : 31/08/2016 8:59 pm
Rolf
 Rolf
(@rolf)
Trusted Member

I agree with Dadio there.
I've never owned a RIF that fired at over 320fps out of the box, and I'm not into upgrading them to be higher than this anyway, so I don't really think this is a big issue.
I think its interesting to note however, that many other countries allow much higher FPS limits than we do here, and dare I say it, this seems just another government measure to remove RIF's from the UK altogether.

.... I Hate ALL officers....

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Posted : 31/08/2016 9:14 pm
(@stanley)
Estimable Member

I go to open days at our local site....knowing there is a sniper or two around does add another element to your approach. Tho a sniper role doesn't float my boat.

As you both suggest, fps isn't everything. The problem would be, if this happens, seems to be that anything that could be altered to go over 1j - say the pps 98k- may become illegal/treated as an airgun - therefore unusable. Or have I put 2 + 2 together and got 330



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Topic starter Posted : 31/08/2016 10:08 pm
McVickers
(@mcvickers)
Famed Member

The current ruling of 1.35j is all down to what - under British law - can be classed as assault. An impact on ones body of 1.35j or more is the "scientific" classification of assault.

My understanding of the law is that any projectile device that fires with a muzzle velocity under 1.35j is classed as a 'toy', such as a Nerf gun is.
Like-wise, any projectile device which fires with a muzzle velocity greater than 1.35j is classed as a projectile weapon, such as an air-rifle is.

Also in British law, you cannot consent to assault - that's why most airsoft sites get you to sign a waiver, and recommend most guns are 'toys' by being within the 1.35j limit - with those single shotters taking the risk for stepping over this limit, classing them in the same legal category as air-rifles, for the supposed increased edge over the full-auto'ers.

It's been well known that unconsentable assault happens non-stop when people play paintball - but it all boils down to if someone wanted to turn around and cry 'assault' after they'd been shot, they'd be legally within their right to do so, But whether the claim would stick in court, what with them playing paintball with the obvious known impcts, is another thing...

A Proud Member Of 'Team Spleen!' who play mainly at Gunman Airsoft, Tuddenham, Suffolk.

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Posted : 31/08/2016 11:51 pm
Rolf
 Rolf
(@rolf)
Trusted Member

This may sound petty, but 'assault' is technically ANY unwanted contact on the body, regardless of force implied.. Therefore, I could pat a person on the arm, and if they do not wish me to, then it could be classed as assault...

.... I Hate ALL officers....

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Posted : 01/09/2016 8:06 am
 Jay7
(@jay7)
Reputable Member

Pretty much agree with the above comments,never understood the slow creep from 328 to 370 myself.




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Posted : 01/09/2016 3:10 pm
Dom_e
(@dom_e)
Estimable Member

I would say that although this may not affect us directly, it does affect airsoft and it does no harm to preserve the status quo. It gives you options and limiting them does no-one any good in this circumstance.

As someone who does open days regularly I like being able to use sniper rifles and DMRs, it allows me to use my WWII gear and compete with the 'moderns' effectively.

Custom airsoft guns and ready-made kits: http://vintageairsoft.wordpress.com

Buy kits here: http://etsy.com/uk/shop/VintageAirsoft? ... _shop_menu

You can also LIKE our page on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thevintageairsofters

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Posted : 02/09/2016 5:58 pm
dadio
(@dadio)
Famed Member

Even without this change ,with things as they stand nobody should be using a 500fps sniper rifle as its well beyond the current limits ,having a min engagement distance means nothing to the law and its a law suit waiting to happen ,what the airsoft community in general definitely does not need is a case being prosecuted in a legal case and a sentence handed out ,that really would open a very unpleasant can of worms for airsoft in the uk.

armoury
m1a1 Thompson,sten mk2,mp40,stg44,sterling,mk2 bren gun,lee Enfield no4 mk1,Mauser Kar98, Walther ppk,smith and Weston m10 and Mauser m712
Give me a big enough hammer and a place to stand and I could fix the world.
i'll kill a man in a fair fight or if i think he's going to start a fair fight or over a woman or.......
a problem shared is a problem halved ,but an advantage shared is no advantage at all
if a job's not worth doing then its certainly not worth doing well





ReplyQuote
Posted : 02/09/2016 7:06 pm
(@kingmaker)
Estimable Member

Hi
It seems that some lord Shrewsbury wanted to propose that all airsoft guns over 1 joule would be outlawed.This guy proposed a new bill
In the House of Lords to make this law.
This would have made all guns above this 1joule a section 5 firearms offence with a mandatory 5 year sentence
The bill was to be voted on on 16th sept,he has now been persuaded to withdraw this by lobbyists,

Link here
http://www.ukapu.org.uk/amendment-to-be-withdrawn/

Currently there is an amendment that to the VCRA act which allows us 370fps full auto and 500fps single shot.
However if you buy a gun from overseas over this limit and it was tested by the authorities it would be a section 5 offence,beware.
Pretty glad it's not going through at 1joule,I would have 13 guns to strip down. Yikes :( :(

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Posted : 03/09/2016 10:25 pm
(@kingmaker)
Estimable Member

Seems my topic and post has been merged with another previous thread on the same topic
My interpretation of the proposed bill,that is now been shelved,is that it would have made the ownership of any previously purchased airsoft over one joule illegal.Not just the purchase of any new gun.
By having a 370 fps limit it allows a buffer zone in case a gun gains fps for any reason like improved air seal or temperature difference
To have forced everybody to downgrade all those previously purchased guns would have been crazy,many owners would be unable
to do the work,and there is not enough technicians.
Also any sniper gun would have become an obsolete ornament as it would have lost its range advantage.
Luckily no sites allow more than 350fps, would not want to play over that personally.

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Posted : 04/09/2016 8:20 pm
CHThree
(@chthree)
Noble Member

The current ruling of 1.35j is all down to what - under British law - can be classed as assault. An impact on ones body of 1.35j or more is the "scientific" classification of assault.

How assaulty is over 500 fps because I've defintely been assaulted with a few "toasty" K98s in my time....



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Posted : 05/09/2016 8:21 pm
(@lord-elpus)
Noble Member

Read with great interest, I personally think the threshold should be higher, if you knew it will hurt, perhaps people wouldn't be so brave, but I am going by modern skirmish experience, I do understand there must be a reasonable limit on power, and would always run to site rules, just as I said a personal mind set.

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Posted : 18/09/2016 7:28 am
CHThree
(@chthree)
Noble Member

Read with great interest, I personally think the threshold should be higher, if you knew it will hurt, perhaps people wouldn't be so brave, but I am going by modern skirmish experience, I do understand there must be a reasonable limit on power, and would always run to site rules, just as I said a personal mind set.

A good mind set to avoid excessive bravery is to encourage the role play of fear, limit ammo and make the foolhardy sit out the rest of the scenario. No need to have your nose* exploded by an over warm gas rifle within the engagement range, it is no fun. Neither is having a BB removed from your chin by a medical professional.

*Edited to include body part.



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Posted : 30/09/2016 8:40 pm
dadio
(@dadio)
Famed Member

I personally think 328-350fps is just about right , its not too dangerous , guns are not overly stressed and last longer and as long as its an even playing field then the range is sufficient for tactical play . I know that in regular airsoft a sniper role is one enjoyed by some but in WW2 airsoft not so much .
We are also lucky that our games seem not to encourage cheating or at least not interest those who want to cheat , so we rarely need to "give em a face full of full auto " to make people "take yer hits !"

armoury
m1a1 Thompson,sten mk2,mp40,stg44,sterling,mk2 bren gun,lee Enfield no4 mk1,Mauser Kar98, Walther ppk,smith and Weston m10 and Mauser m712
Give me a big enough hammer and a place to stand and I could fix the world.
i'll kill a man in a fair fight or if i think he's going to start a fair fight or over a woman or.......
a problem shared is a problem halved ,but an advantage shared is no advantage at all
if a job's not worth doing then its certainly not worth doing well





ReplyQuote
Posted : 01/10/2016 10:49 am
(@lord-elpus)
Noble Member

I agree at 350fps, that's still got enough "sting" power, but lower seems to be then at closer range engagements, or that's my experience anyway, a lot of indoor cqb arena's run 280 fps because they are so close, if they had more distance some wouldn't even reach their target.
Let's not drop any lower!

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Posted : 01/10/2016 12:37 pm
CHThree
(@chthree)
Noble Member

The vast majority of soldiers in WW2 had rifles. A problem with higher than 350 FPS is that when you do get in to closer quarters (defending /storming bunkers or trenches) rifles aren't able to safely engage, so ensuring that all rifles can engage at closer ranges encourages their use and hence a certain realism. Being able to shoot the balls off a gnat at 1000 yards with a No4T is realistic too, but you will never have that realistic an airsoft rifle so you have to decide which sort of realism you prefer.



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Posted : 03/10/2016 7:29 pm
 Fred
(@fred)
New Member

Here in Northern Ireland we have had the 1 joule limit for several years. The police are reputed to chronograph guns that come to their attention to check they comply but I have not heard of anyone being prosecuted for being over the limit.

Fred

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Posted : 05/10/2016 1:20 pm
Allenby
(@allenby)
Noble Member

Being able to shoot the balls off a gnat at 1000 yards with a No4T is realistic too.

My favourite Commando comic! Gnat Emasculation McGee!



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Posted : 05/10/2016 3:42 pm
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