While I agree with some of what you say gadge having a group that doesnt assume a specific identity unit wise to begin with isnt necessarily not adding anything different. In our case the main aim is to get the US players chatting and socialising more. building up that camadre and tactics when playing together and helping promote the US side of things. We found that diving right in specifying units actually seemed to put people off who wanted to play US so for now we're taking a different tack and letting things develop more before we progress on from that.
we may change that in the future but for now its working great, and getting alot more interest this way than it did before when we were more specific about it all. Not saying either way is best just that we want to develop the DB's at a slightly more relaxed pace 
We found that diving right in specifying units actually seemed to put people off who wanted to play US so for now we're taking a different tack and letting things develop more before we progress on from that.
RE: my design by committee/cooks/broth comment
"I think we are in rats' alley - Where the dead men lost their bones."
thats not quite the tact we're taking but point taken
All very interesting but just to make it clear, CiA inclusive 'rules' won't be changing. But, even given the relaxed rules players hardly ever take the base line - more usually it's just incomplete or mishmash kit.
But pretty much as Gadge says, there is more to WW2 airsoft than CiA run games. More players are taking up the WW2 cause, other groups and sites are taking the opportunity to make games available and with that their own rules, both wider and narrower than CiA's.
That's good - more choice, more opportunity to play how you want, when you want. Just don't expect a 100 player bolt-action-only game anytime soon (much as I'd love one!)!
As an aside, at the BotB game we attempted to run a 'balanced' firepower system, reserving the right to nominate some auto guns to be only used on semi-auto. As I recall we didn't need to use it and haven't considered it necessary since!
Here here .
This is the second thread i've seen a debate about changing the CiA rules .
There are 4 people involved in setting the CiA rules for CiA games, if we feel there's a need then we'll change 'em. If other people want to copy them -great , if they want to run stricter games that's good also , and if they want to run less strict games, fine by me too . We have deliberately kept the rules as open and inclusive as we started , and I don't think any of our games have suffered as a result (call me and let me know if you disagree please ) . We don't plan on fixing what ain't broke .
Glad to hear it, Guy.
CiA is the flagship for WW2 airsoft in this country, and it's growing by the day. AI gave us some great publicity, and now the only way is up!
Proud to be a part of it!
Yup, it was meant to be thought provoking - and it has certainly provided quite a debate on the subject, one that i'm happy to say has not degenerated to the level it would on other forums, which to me says an awful lot about the calibre of WW2 Airsofters!
When we were a Kingdom it was run by a King
When we were an Empire it was run by an Empress
Now we're a country we're run by a..........
I'd just like to say one thing, with the inception of all of these smaller groups and 'sides' I think it's very important that we continue to foster the sense of community that seems to have grown naturally out of the creation of this forum.
WW2 airsoft has grown massively in the last year, much further and farther than most of us originally imagined I would say.
We must make sure that, if we are organising games independently, that we try to cooperate in order not to usurp or conflict with other people's plans. We have a calendar on here that you can use to check out what's planned for when.
What I would hate to see is the WW2 airsoft community becoming splintered and working against or in competition with one-another. We should all be in this together.
This year sees the most WW2 games planned than in any previous year and I'm sure the outcome of these events will dictate the direction WW2 airsoft will move in.
It's my personal opinion that fewer, high quality, games would be better than open-day style monthly games, although there could be room for both styles if more and more players turn to WW2.
CiA can act as a conduit and virtual meeting point for people planning or attending events too, so make sure you use this resource!
I agree with what the main theme is here of having more games like A Bridge Too Far where there are set teams . I like the idea, but it would also cause problems for people without the correct kit such as the Ostfront game, I think there will be a lot of partisans and hardly any russians ; but I submit to you that these teams that have come out, Doughboys, PBI, SS, Landser Group, and Falshirmjeager could go far .
These could be used like teams where everyone in that team has the specific kit required, then the teams could challange each other so to speak to a battle, both teams decide on a theatre/battle that suits them best then arrange the game . They play it in this there is also room for inclusion of other teams like SS, Landser and Falshirmjaeger if the battle/theatre permits it, whilst on the other hand CIA could run general games for everyone to help people get into WW2 airsoft, so then you get a mix of realistic games and general games so everyones happy, also it would build a sort of unit thing between each of the groups.
eDIT - translated into rough English O 'U 
I think you are spot on dev trooper but i also have few strong feelings about all this.
Firstly if we want to keep wwii airsoft inclusive and have community we need to be careful about groups.
They should serve a purpose.
I'm very worried that people feel they *have* to be in one group or whatever, there is nothing wrong with just doing your own thing or gaming wiht your mates, as said before i'd be a bit worried if every guy wanting to do brit kit felt they had to be in PBI or they'd miss out, its not for everyone.
I also think that any more than one game a month is silly really, were cutting an already very thin cake into tiny slices.
As far as i know cia always planned and hopefully still do.. to do about four games a year, I think in PBI we'd be happy with two, unfortunatley this year we have two in one month (march but that couldnt be helped and they are over 25 days apart i believe).
That leaves room for another six quality games without flogging the market.
A game a month becomes an event, you wait for it, you prep kit for it, if we get to many it becomes a chore and a choice, you worry about which one to attend, where will most of your mates be etc.
The crux of it is i believe and this is only my opinion that groups should have some goal or direction other than 'play some games' (cos we al do that anyway) and that we *think* carefully about a group or games purpose before we did it.
I cant say how it is now but when i helped cia we never rushed into anything, we'd spend weeks deciding on what battle to do, what the rules would be and is aim of the day before we'd even make a forum post.
However the idea of groups who have a definaite identity challenging each other to a battle is great.
To a degree this is what wil happen in mini format next weekend, the end of the UK/axis trainiing day wil have some small exercises and skirmishes which will hopefully be quitte 'authentic' both in kit and tactics.
Again that isnt for everyone but its nice for the option to be there.
A last point to any would be game orgnaisers is that 'its not as easy as you'd think'
a days 'risk assessment' before going public saves you no end of hassle.
1. have a firm aim/goal - dont open it up for debate or your game will just end up being watered down by compromise
2. think of *everything* that could possibly go wrong, what is the most serious (i.e. nobody signs up) and what is most likely (it may piss it down all day in feb). concentrate on contingency plans for the most likely serious problems
3. Dont try and please everyone, you cant.
"I think we are in rats' alley - Where the dead men lost their bones."
As far as i know cia always planned and hopefully still do.. to do about four games a year, I think in PBI we'd be happy with two, unfortunatley this year we have two in one month (march but that couldnt be helped and they are over 25 days apart i believe).
Nothing changed there. CiA plan four games this year, with two already announced.
I cant say how it is now but when i helped cia we never rushed into anything, we'd spend weeks deciding on what battle to do, what the rules would be and is aim of the day before we'd even make a forum post.
Nothing changed there either. In fact, at times we don't release full details of the game until the day!
Very good thread guys and as a new comer CIA I would fully agree that this forum and the guys behind it are a good solid flagship for all to access. You have many groups forming up and these groups work well in the field. There is a danger of saturating the market and when I announced the GMA dates I had no idea so many other sites where going to jump onboard, this is a small market at the moment and will take time to build. We may be pulling a few of the smaller games to make sure there is enough room for everyone. Maybe only run two small events, one for each side and the D-Day’s. I would still like to host Operations for all 2ww airsofters to come and train, socialize and battle with each other but am finding it hard to find a date myself…lol…that L learn me!!
You guys have a great community here and with CIA running their style and PBI with its beginning round the corner you already cover all that you have talked about in the thread. I myself would be very interested (from a games point of view) how a real world set up would unfold. If you want to try something Gadge feel free to PM me.
Nice one guys.
Heer Schmidt
Will deffo be in touch Josh!
"I think we are in rats' alley - Where the dead men lost their bones."
Personally I don`t intend joining a group because I couldn`t give the time or commitment needed and I don`t want to be told what kit is suitable.
My impression will never be 100% which is why I never got into reenactment.
I stopped going to monthly open days as they got samey same. Plus after getting geared up in DPM one Sunday and shooting little balls of plastic at people in a wood near Bristol, I arrived home to a phone call from my son in Iraq whose base was being mortared, it sort of put things in perspective.
Most of my WW2 airsoft time is taken up by socialising on this forum, reading up on the history side of things and maybe collecting the odd bit of WW2 militaria.
I have in total only attended one game which was a superb experience and more like a weekend camping out with the lads, the airsoft side was a bonus.
I would rather go to one event like that a year, than to a dozen open days. 
My sentiments exactly. Some of the guys on here are re-enactors too, which is fine for them, but it ain't my bag. Still, I want as nice and realistic a kit as possible, just don't want to be doing drill at the weekends - had enough of that in 5 years of cadets then Halton.
Yea all we need is like 4 or 5 large like 24hr themed games a year like based on a certain battle, like Arnhem, or Bastogne and that would be fine, and inbetween that you can have the smaller games and such, i know that i would prefer to travel (ususally very far) for a good realistic well thought out 24hr event than a 6hr game where most people are toting AK's wearing flecktarns but then you still have to get people into the hobby.
Yea all we need is like 4 or 5 large like 24hr themed games a year like based on a certain battle, like Arnhem, or Bastogne and that would be fine, and inbetween that you can have the smaller games and such, i know that i would prefer to travel (ususally very far) for a good realistic well thought out 24hr event than a 6hr game where most people are toting AK's wearing flecktarns but then you still have to get people into the hobby.
The reality is that virtually all the games I have been to have not featured AK toting Flecktarn wearers . From the start there has been a high standard of kit that has improved game on game, look atthe pics on the website if you need to .
As for teams challenging teams.....I see where your coming from however there is much more to running a succesful airsoft event than just booking some ground to play on .
Yea all we need is like 4 or 5 large like 24hr themed games a year like based on a certain battle, like Arnhem, or Bastogne and that would be fine, and inbetween that you can have the smaller games and such, i know that i would prefer to travel (ususally very far) for a good realistic well thought out 24hr event than a 6hr game where most people are toting AK's wearing flecktarns but then you still have to get people into the hobby.
The reality is that virtually all the games I have been to have not featured AK toting Flecktarn wearers . From the start there has been a high standard of kit that has improved game on game, look atthe pics on the website if you need to .
As for teams challenging teams.....I see where your coming from however there is much more to running a succesful airsoft event than just booking some ground to play on .
Indeed and 2WW demands a certain ammount of respect as we have all been brought up with it. After all if airsoft isn't a themed experience then what the hell is it.
Hope your lads was ok slick, it does put the game we play in perspective and why I try not to touch on modern warfare. To close to home and all that.
Heer Schmidt
Hope your lads was ok slick
Yep, he got back in one piece thank goodness, thanks for asking bud
Hi, everyone,
As a total raw recruit here is my pen`eth.I have been interested in airsoft for about 8 years now, more or less since I had to hand in my real guns after `Dunblane`. I have built up a nice collection of weapons. Because of my job (R.A.C. Patrol), I work 3 weekends out of 4, therefore I can never fulfill the requirement for a defence against the VCRA, i.e. I do not skirmish therfore I can never legally buyany new guns. I am looking to taking part in ww2 airsoft in 2008, maybe I will only be able to attend 3 events in a year. I have an AK 47S which under current rules is acceptible,but if you tighten the rules to only include period replicas I would be excluded.
Without new blood any organisation will wither and die. So , I say keep things as they are.
flatrajectory.
"REMEMBER, LIFE IS NOT A REHEARSAL"
