Problems with a jap...
 
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Problems with a japanese side

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dieselmonkey
(@dieselmonkey)
Noble Member

Point is yeh, argue for people using an army impression for PTO, people will buy Marine loadouts anyway and if and when games are arranged see how the numbers pan out. You won't have a problem getting Allied numbers...trouble is there will just be Yith on the other side shitting his pants holding a bolt action with 40 guys with Thompsons baring down on him.

I think, tbh, you'll struggle to *ever* get the mumbers for a Japanese side. There are no (affordable) weapons available, little in the way of kit, and, even though there are some cheap repro uniforms out there now, for most people, it's just not 'interesting' enough to warrant spending cash on.

It's a very small niche, within a small niche, of a niche hobby!

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Topic starter Posted : 19/04/2010 10:35 am
Chomley-Warner
(@admin-infinity)
Illustrious Member Admin

I think, tbh, you'll struggle to *ever* get the numbers for a Japanese side...

I'm sure it would be possible with a bit of effort and a relaxed ruleset. Gunman has uniforms to hire and relaxed game rules so, should such a set up be arranged by him or a like-minded soul, then something could be organised. But as you say Evo, are people interested in playing Japanese? Heck, its hard enough organising a Vietnam game - most want to be GIs and many that do play VC/NVA have no empathy with, or even knowledge of, the Vietnam side of the conflict or even where Vietnam is, let alone what the war was about. As least the guns are easy for VC!

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Posted : 19/04/2010 10:53 am
Zero Bravo
(@zero-bravo)
Famed Member

...and the loadout, black coveralls, straw lampshade hat with elastich chinstrap and an AK chestrig for a tenner and you're easily passable as enemy. Other than Gunman's gear I dont see an easy answer to the enemy loadout problem. Weapons would just be a nightmare. If only the manufacturers would use a Bar 10 base and make Enfield / k98 / Springfield / Moisin Nagant / Arisaka bodies or even kits, then all our problems would be solved!




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Posted : 21/04/2010 10:16 pm
(@lardassmonkey)
Famed Member

Well Mikoyan has put together a look a like guide here that wouldn't be too hard to do. Not quite as easy or cheap as a VC one but do able for those who thus inclined. In terms of Japanese weapons you are stuck unless you want to spend silly money on a Tanaka Arisaka or KTW Type 96 for one game. There is plenty of options for captured kit, (Allied or Chinese K98s) but it would be a bit odd to have an entire side equipped with captured weapons. Not totally unbelieveable I guess though given the state of the Japanese supply lines.

http://www.ww2airsoft.org.uk/php/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=120&t=8757&p=148435#p148435

As others have said the question is how many people have the inclination to do it though? I'm unintentionally not that far off it myself but whether I'd bother to complete it is another matter. I could do it quite easily but I'd just be doing it to make up the numbers so the Allies would have something to shoot at and my idea of a good game is more than just being a target. I can empathise with the Vietnamese a little at Vietnam events despite the cultural differences. The Japanese had, for the most part, an entirely different mindset thats alien to any of us.

If only the manufacturers would use a Bar 10 base and make Enfield / k98 / Springfield / Moisin Nagant / Arisaka bodies or even kits, then all our problems would be solved!

Yes indeed, that would be a dream come true.

Anyway what was this topic about again?

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Posted : 22/04/2010 10:47 am
(@wladek)
Famed Member

I'll admit I'm not too sure about this 'empathy' question/point. I mean they were people, they fought in a war and too many died. Does that not cover the Japanese as well as anyone else?

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Posted : 22/04/2010 10:54 am
Sgt.Heide
(@sgt-heide)
Illustrious Member

From the point of view of trying to get into the mindset of a WW2 soldier, the Japanese soldier is the hardest for us westerners to try to emulate, because their culture was totally different to any other. Selflessness, honour and obedience to the emperor to the point of madness don't come easy to us. If you're the type who cowers down for cover because someone's firing a toy gun roughly in your direction, you'll struggle to capture the spirit of the IJA and that, even more than lack of suitable weapons would make any pacific game a "SISK" in my opinion.



When I want your opinion - I'll tell you what it is!

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Posted : 22/04/2010 11:12 am
 Yith
(@yith)
Illustrious Member

I'm not sure that's such a definite problem... If you understand even just a little that, that is what you need to do, then I see no problem.

Going back to the comparison with Vietnam games. The best ones I've been at had rules for suicide charges and sneaky stuff... It really, really worked... and all the NVA and VC got the idea.

It takes a positive effort from the organisers and players to get the feel right... that's all.

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Posted : 22/04/2010 11:20 am
Chomley-Warner
(@admin-infinity)
Illustrious Member Admin

Yith is right, it certainly is possible to create a workable/enjoyable game for Vietnam so there isn't much of a reason why it can't be done for a Far East game. But it will always be a SISK as Pete says. Nothing wrong in that of course, if very relaxed kit and weapons rules sets are your bag. A distinctly traditional airsoft game of goodies against baddies where Brits against Japs could just as easily be substituted for Brits against Argies or cops against Drug runners. Fun but no depth.

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Posted : 22/04/2010 11:39 am
(@wladek)
Famed Member

Are the weapons really that relevant?

I understand people wanting the right ones, but how many Russian weapons were actually used at the Loop game? two or three? And that didn't detract from the feel at all.

I shall now incur the wrath of the gun people but, as far as I am concerned: a wood/wood effect bolt action rifle is a a wood/wood effect bolt action rifle. Whether someone is using a K98, Lee Enfield, Mosin Nagant, Arisaka, Springfield, M1 Garand... does not look out of place to me, and in no way spoils the immersion.

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Posted : 22/04/2010 11:43 am
JD7
 JD7
(@jd7)
Illustrious Member

How dare you - my Tanaka K98k has a name !! She's not just some bolt action rifle

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Posted : 22/04/2010 11:52 am
Chomley-Warner
(@admin-infinity)
Illustrious Member Admin

The fact is weapoms CAN'T be relevant if you want to put on a Far Eastern scenario! Its got to be a looks-like or mass of captured weapons (apart from a few dedicated souls who can make stuff).

But it does beg the question - why? Why go to all the effort to put on such an event when other scenarios are easier and more believable? What is wrong with Western scenarios? Boring? Fervent desire to buy more outfits?

Edit: Give myself an answer: Why? To give the US Marines an enemy.

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Posted : 22/04/2010 11:56 am
 Yith
(@yith)
Illustrious Member

No, because the Far East was a totally different type of war to the one in Europe.

The terrain... the fighting style, the weaponry, the uniforms. Almost everything was different in some way.

BTW, I can tell you right now if I do ever organise a Far East game I'll be trying my hardest to not to have USMC in it.

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Posted : 22/04/2010 12:43 pm
Chomley-Warner
(@admin-infinity)
Illustrious Member Admin

No, because the Far East was a totally different type of war to the one in Europe.
The terrain... the fighting style, the weaponry, the uniforms. Almost everything was different in some way.

Ah, now that is integrity. Sadly, it makes a Far Eastern event even less likely, speaking practically!

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Posted : 22/04/2010 12:51 pm
 Yith
(@yith)
Illustrious Member

True... but we already came to the conclusion that if people can be bothered to get Jap uniform then they'll probably buy into the theme more..

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Posted : 22/04/2010 1:18 pm
Colosseum
(@colosseum)
Estimable Member

What's wrong with USMC? Nobody seems to care about them either. "If you ain't a paratrooper you don't matter" is the general feeling I get over here in the US, ever since the brothers in the band came about.

Hopefully The Pacific will change this and maybe get some people interested in PTO games.

I'd do an IJA loadout JUST to carry a samurai sword and make banzai charges!

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Posted : 22/04/2010 4:15 pm
 Yith
(@yith)
Illustrious Member

Sorry... it's just a reaction to the likely result that everything else Far East will be overshadowed as a result of "The Pacific" in the same was as happened with 101st airborne and BoB.

I've been interested in the Far East for quite some time, specifically Burma and specifically the British Army. Though I do also have US Army impressions for the Far East, not USMC.

I just feel like stamping my feet and saying "it's not fair!" in a kiddie tantrum sort of way. lol ;)

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Posted : 22/04/2010 4:41 pm
(@scaleyback)
Famed Member

What's wrong with USMC? Nobody seems to care about them either. "If you ain't a paratrooper you don't matter" is the general feeling I get over here in the US, ever since the brothers in the band came about.

Hopefully The Pacific will change this and maybe get some people interested in PTO games.

I'd do an IJA loadout JUST to carry a samurai sword and make banzai charges!

i can understand where your coming from, far too many people want to be elite troops. they did do the odd death or glory fight to the death ( you dont need me to list them surely.... crete, arnhem, bastogne, yaddda yadda yadda...) but we in the PBI are more interested in the bloke who worked at the local pub who joined up and fought in an obscure line infantry regiment..the back bone of all ww2 armies. be he british, american, or german, and all the other combatant countries. thats where the real war is. not with HBO.

E.T. man can kiss my fathers arse.

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Posted : 22/04/2010 5:20 pm
(@bedsnherts)
Famed Member

Nigel, if I remember correctly, your first loadout was US Paratrooper

Most people get into this as a result of HBO series and computer games. Some develop their interest into something which is closer to PBI, some don't.

What I'm saying is that very few players start off wanting to emulate a regular rank-and-file EM - that comes after you've gained a bit of knowledge and insight.

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Posted : 22/04/2010 5:52 pm
Hänschen klein
(@hanschen-klein)
Famed Member

Interesting thoughts by all. I think the real question is Would people attend, put the effort into getting a Jap load out (or look a like) The weapons thing as stated Bolt action is a bolt action (In this instance for flexibility)

What about a moderator putting a voting thingy up with the voting buttons like Where are you from thread. The results I think are interesting and also helpful for potential organisers. Who knows you may be supprised by how many or how few votes would be cast. Depending on the results would influence the future outcome of any event to be organised.

PS Does you lovely K98 have a name? I wish I had a K98 to name!!

Tschuss





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Posted : 22/04/2010 6:10 pm
(@scaleyback)
Famed Member

Nigel, if I remember correctly, your first loadout was US Paratrooper

Most people get into this as a result of HBO series and computer games. Some develop their interest into something which is closer to PBI, some don't.

What I'm saying is that very few players start off wanting to emulate a regular rank-and-file EM - that comes after you've gained a bit of knowledge and insight.

yeah,,, martin, due to the fact it was going for a song,, nothing to do with tom hanks,, :D
i actually wanted the hallams kit yith was wearing first time i ever met him.

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Posted : 22/04/2010 6:32 pm
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