there is a *massive* thread on tis on wwiireenacting,co.uk
rather than invent the wheel and retyping it i'd seriosuly recomend having brief lurk their to read it....
but to summarise, you're not supposed to but it did means that you dindt have to hold warm parts and the bolt coudl sheer off your fingers if you held the weapon under the mag and were not careful.
MKVs had a foregrip for a reason....
"I think we are in rats' alley - Where the dead men lost their bones."
http://wwiireenacting.co.uk/forum/viewt ... =sten+grip
"I think we are in rats' alley - Where the dead men lost their bones."
The actor who played the commanding para officer in the Longest Day( his name escapes me at the moment)
Click
Richard Todd, very interesting chap, saw him on tv recounting how he joined the airborne, he was delivering a message for his regular unit and the para officer he delivered it to said something like "damn fine moustache, you`re just the kind of chap we`re looking for in this unit" 
http://www.britishcinemagreats.com/Actors_page/richard_todd/richard_todd_page_1.htm
You could hold it by the mag well safely... but don't hold it by the mag.
The correct way to hold it is by the barrel nut... this is not a good idea if using a top venting blank firer... unless you don't like the tips of your thumbs too much.
I imagine that it would the same as for the MP40 - holding it by the mag could cause it to jam.
You've got nothing to ein, zwei, drei, vier
http://wwiireenacting.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24045&highlight=sten+grip
Loved that discussion....... To further debate in this forum here's my edited summary from page 4 of the re-enacting thread.....
(1) There's definitely the right way to hold a real sten of whatever model, which is in accordance with the manual (ie, left hand under mag and grasping barrel nut or foregrip) as it (a) provides for a more controlled stance which improves accuracy and (b) is less likely to interfere with the mag release or exacerbate any mag leeway thereby increasing the risk of a jam
(2) There's photo's at ease and on patrol of MarkVs with foregrips being held by the mag and/or housing though - at least none that I'm aware of - no photos of the sten actually being fired in this way, which raises whether the pictures are staged and whether this undermines their veracity or not.
So, in a sense and as far as this thread is concerned, the historical accuracy of the wrong hold (ie, 2) is yet to be proven.
Cant argue with that!
"I think we are in rats' alley - Where the dead men lost their bones."
Aye it didnt have a great reputation did it.. but it was cheap and easy to make and i guess thats what counts when you need to re-arm at speed.
But i think you're pretty righthtere Ewart!
"I think we are in rats' alley - Where the dead men lost their bones."
Sorry but I have to laugh at the accuracy being thrown in with Sten in the same sentance.
Anyone ever see that programme a few years back where it was argued that something like 80-90% of all shots fired in WW2 weren't aimed as such?
Just seems to me that SMGs like the sten are there for shooting at a rough area, keep their heads down as it were, more than actually shooting some one.
Just my opinion.
A weapon like the STEN will not be as accurate as say a No.4(T) but whatever the weapon, accuracy is optimised by use of the correct drills, etc. (which the first poster was asking about). The STEN (like other SMGs) was designed to kill people.... and it could do it relatively inexpensively. Differences of opinion exist as to whether the STEN was loved or hated and there's certainly veteran anecdotes falling into both camps - I like to think the haters were those who didn't follow the correct drills!
The point you make about 80-90% of shots not being aimed.... if it's the same programme I'm thinking of (fronted by the God who is Jeremy Clarkson) then the missed shot issue wasn't one of accuracy but rather a reflection on man's general discomfort with killing man.
PS: Am new to the forum and if I am seeming to take this too seriously just let me know and I'll retire to my foxhole.
God no! Keep out of that damn foxhole.
Some very interesting stuff here. 
Def keep posting, stuff I certainly don't/didn't know about, mainly as I don't pay attention to the Allied stuff a great deal 
but also that its an interesting topic 
The point to stop would be when you offend, I don't think you have ... well not yet anyways 
its been an interesting discussion and I've enjoyed reading it.
Someone block that foxhole 
The basic design ethos of an SMG is to put the rounds down (at close-medium range) - the inherant lessening of accuracy from the automatic fire and smaller, pistol round being made up for by the increase in round count.
Give a SMG to a conscript, teach him which is the naughty end, and where the trigger is and potentially he can kill ememy, with very little 'training' required.
However, good drills will always help, also with ammo conservation - an imporant consideration if on extended patrol, etc.
Re the Sten - holding by the mag well is acceptable but not the mag, as it will distort the feed path, ie the mag won't line up with the well properly if stressed backwards. Probably best to hold by the shroud, bearing in mind a) the heat and b) the exposed, moving bolt will remove any stray anatomy (hopefully not a problem with airsoft, unless our soon-to-be spate of mk2/mk3's are THAT good )
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No this is all great stuff.
I agree as well that the point that shots were not aimed is more to do with not wanitng to be responisble for killing someone.
Its strange isnt it, the sten has a terrible rep in folklore yet german troops loved it and would even tie captured stens to themselves so they didnt have them stolen while sleeping (source: it never snows in september) as you could fire them prone easily and they were simple.
As for accuracy well i guess everything is a compromise.
Easy build, few moving parts and high tolerances leaves you with a cheap robust but inacuaret wepaon (sten or todays ak47)
Complex build, highly machined pieces and tight tolerances gives you an expensive accurate weapon that fails if you dont maintain it adequatley (mp38 or todays sa80)
All four stil kill very well, but as woodlander says its a case of getting the best out of it by using it right, form personal experience if we use the sa80 its reguallry degraded and rubished by people (and most of those have never held one let alone fired thousands of rounds through it) but for me i used one for just under three years and found it a brilliant wepaon, but then again i used to be called 'pamphlet boy' in my section as i knew the manuals backwards and followed drils to the letter. Having said thaty i had i think *five* stoppages in all those years and most of those were bad ammo.
"I think we are in rats' alley - Where the dead men lost their bones."
....form personal experience if we use the sa80 its reguallry degraded and rubished by people (and most of those have never held one let alone fired thousands of rounds through it) but for me I used one for just under three years and found it a brilliant wepaon, but then again I used to be called 'pamphlet boy' in my section as I knew the manuals backwards and followed drils to the letter. Having said thaty I had I think *five* stoppages in all those years and most of those were bad ammo.
Good point about quality of ammo Gadge .... have heard anecdotes/remarks from others both WW2 and later of instances of rounds of various calibres falling short.
Yep poorly made ammo is really bad for jam and stoppages (might not have enugh propelant to project the round and cycle properly if you gas parts areslighly clogged etc)
"I think we are in rats' alley - Where the dead men lost their bones."