Different Water Bottle Carriers

one is earlier but i cant remember witch,however i can tell you if you soak the skeleton one and stretch it over the bottle and add some packing to further stretch it then leave it to dry you will find it fits a lot moor loosely and the poppers will be usable plus it will slide out easier when you want a drink ,i think they shrank over the years of storage.they both had the same canteen inside,as far as i can remember the skeleton one is most commonly used.

Yep, wetting and stretching is deffo' the way to go.
I'm glad someone else packs-out the bottle top to stretch the strap even more, dadio

The full sleeve came first, then the half sleeve to save web fabric, then the skeleton type to save even more web fabric. AThe earlier sleeve types still saw action all throughout the war, but the skeleton one is the most common to find.

thanks guys i think i will stick to one of my full sleeve ones.

Both my full sleeve ones are also very stiff to fit a waterbottle, do you recommend a similar procedure like with the skeleton one. Soak in water and put bottle in

No, the sleeve type are always usually tight, as that's the only way to keep the water bottle to stay inside, due to no top strap Most people, (including seen from period photos) just resort to unbuckling the whole assembly whenever you need to drink (and that includes the skeleton types too).

I thought it was the other way around.

skeleton types first and then around 1943 the sleeve/envelope type start coming into service.

The logic being that the sleeve type, while using more material, is a lot easier to produce and much quicker to make.

I could be wrong but most the pics of sleeve ones i've seen are post 43.

I thought it was the other way around.

skeleton types first and then around 1943 the sleeve/envelope type start coming into service.

The logic being that the sleeve type, while using more material, is a lot easier to produce and much quicker to make.

I could be wrong but most the pics of sleeve ones i've seen are post 43.

Hmm, it wouldn't make sense though really - especially as every single postwar (blackened metalwork) water bottle carrier I've seen has been the skeleton type, which would lead me to think that that is the final version. But Karkee Web seems to support your rememberings http://www.karkeeweb.com/patterns/1937/1937_water_bottle_carriers.html.
Skeleton first, short sleeve, then long sleeve types.

Because post war they didnt have to churn out millions of them quickly for Britain, Canada, India, South Africa etc etc while being bombed to bits and under pressure I'd have thought.

I'm pretty sure the envelope is an economy of manufacture (if you think about it its a hell of a lot less fiddly work) rather than economy of material.

Quite often you see dodgy sellers listing the envelope/sleeve type as 'airborne', while you see plenty of them in use with the airborne divisions i think thats largely because most of the units were equipped in early 43

Most people, (including seen from period photos) just resort to unbuckling the whole assembly whenever you need to drink (and that includes the skeleton types too).

I keep spare water bottles in my gas mask bag and small pack just because it is such a pita to unbuckle the proper water bottle

Cheers
Martin

Do it enough times and honestly the carriers stretch and it gets easier...

There are other variations for the skeletal carriers too.
Popper close on top of bottle
Popper close on side of bottle
Buckle close
Aussie style belt mounting[the best version I think]

Must admit I've stopped wearing mine on my webbing in airsoft after it broke two of my ribs.

I've got one of the ones with the integral long strap. feck knows who or what it was originally issued to.

I've got one of the ones with the integral long strap. feck knows who or what it was originally issued to.

ATS and ARP

I've got one of the ones with the integral long strap. feck knows who or what it was originally issued to.

ATS and ARP

Ah right, cheers. Figures the ATS one looks like a handbag.

The Home guard usually got the leather ones on straps like '03 pattern but significantly different from the original '03 ones. Later on there were canvas ones for them as well.

I've got one of the ones with the integral long strap. feck knows who or what it was originally issued to.

ATS and ARP

Ah right, cheers. Figures the ATS one looks like a handbag.

I don't think so, as I've read that they were for general/misc use, like for MPs and MT drivers who didn't want to alter their webbing or didn't wear enough webbing components to allow a normal carrier it to be suspended.
Also, ARP and ATS stuff tends not to be 'crows foot' marked, which mine are.
Also, I've an ATS waterbottle - it's a similar shape to a military one but aluminium, and the webbing carrier is made from a lot cheaper thinner (but wider) web strap, like most of the civilian issue bag straps and such.

and ATS stuff tends not to be 'crows foot' marked

Funny that all the ATS clothing we have here has crows feet? We must have rare stuff?
Overalls of both types, boiler suit and wrap around have them on the labels.
Why would they not? Still the military, still to government contract?
Have a look at the war relics forum, plenty of marked ATS stuff to look at.

Also, ARP and ATS stuff tends not to be 'crows foot' marked, which mine are.
Also, I've an ATS waterbottle - it's a similar shape to a military one but aluminium, and the webbing carrier is made from a lot cheaper thinner (but wider) web strap, like most of the civilian issue bag straps and such.

Just as a side note: I made a slip of the keyboard there, I was meant to type "Also, I've an ARP water bottle - ..."

and ATS stuff tends not to be 'crows foot' marked

Funny that all the ATS clothing we have here has crows feet? We must have rare stuff?
Overalls of both types, boiler suit and wrap around have them on the labels.
Why would they not? Still the military, still to government contract?
Have a look at the war relics forum, plenty of marked ATS stuff to look at.

I don't own any ATS stuff, but yes I have seen ATS overall/coats (only last week) with full labelling and crows foot markings and admit that I had a mind blank and forgot that the ATS was a military force, not a civilian service like the ARP, so please disregard the "and ATS" part for my "ARP and ATS stuff tends not to be 'crows foot' marked" comment. I was trying to talk about the civilian service equipment.

Poacher, you do seem to be quite a knowledgeable chap on quite a lot of fronts, which we all appreciate, but I'm sure people would like you more if you didn't constantly lay on your sarcasm so thickly at nearly all opportunities.

Sometimes it is a little thick but if statements are made that are inaccurate and are not questioned then they get taken on board and repeated as fact.
There are always plenty of off hand remarks that get made, often not thought through or made from half remembered tales a 'mate' told them. I'm a bit anal about stuff so I check details before I post. If I'm not sure, I ask.
Being wrong doesn't make me a bad person, just wrong. In telling me I'm wrong you have done me a favour.
Sometimes going against the flow pays off. If you care to, look back to the early days when i was advising against buying dubious German camo uniforms and covering them in bling. I got some flak for that. Now field grey is best is almost a mantra for many of the players.

I don't think so, as I've read that they were for general/misc use, like for MPs and MT drivers who didn't want to alter their webbing or didn't wear enough webbing components to allow a normal carrier it to be suspended.
Also, ARP and ATS stuff tends not to be 'crows foot' marked, which mine are.
Also, I've an ATS waterbottle - it's a similar shape to a military one but aluminium, and the webbing carrier is made from a lot cheaper thinner (but wider) web strap, like most of the civilian issue bag straps and such.

The one with the webbing integral strap was designated Water bottle carrier OS ( other services) and issued primarily to the ATS and nursing services ( not medics,the genuine medic bottles are different again,much larger and with an attached cup and larger carrier)presumably because they had no webbing to attach it to.Some sources claim it was a replacement for the leather one issued to the Home Guard ( which is similar to the '03 one but lacks the webbing section in the strap) and which was exclusively Home Guard.The aluminium water bottle as I remember wasn't produced in vast numbers ,though it was for general issue( Mk iv i think), most of the ones that appear are lendlease ones from America and were in fact designated for issue to the Home Guard.The ARP were issued with the same waterbottle carrier as the ATS but frequently the bottle itself tended to be the older blue ones , old stock I suppose , but like their helmets ,gasmask bags and satchels were usually war office broad arrow stamped,I have an ARP satchel ( like the medical ones ) which is very clearly stamped 1944 and broad arrow,and has as you say a much lighter wide fabric strap.Very unusual to see a photo of regulars carrying the narrow strapped waterbottle carrier,normally if they are carrying one without webbing it is a normal carrier with a cross strap attached.Quite feasible with MT drivers though as a lot of drivers were ATS presumably a fair amount of the same bottles and carriers would have been around.