Below is a topic I posted on another forum. It was concerned with this thread:
http://www.zeroin.co.uk/showthread.php?t=22309
Appologise if you can't view it. The points I made were valid i thought, yet every time I post the thread it gets removed by admin saying the points have already been covered. On all the fourms I've been involved with I've never known a thread removed simply because similar topics have already been discussed. It stinks of censorship and shows the hobby in a bad light. If anyone has any opinions on the points I raise or if any are incorrcet please post. At least here you'll be given the chance 
"I am writting this post in response to a topic posted elsewhere on the forum that has now been closed. The topic in question related to a young lad who had bouht an MP5 second hand from someone and the item seems to be not working correctly and also not what it was advertised to be.
My worries are these. No where in the topic did any one raise the point that the sale should not have gone through in the first place. For a start the buyer gives hs age as under 18, RIF's must only be sold to 18's and over. Secondly the buyer cliams to have gotten around the fact he is under 18 because his Mum bought it, her name was on the cheque. I might be wrong but I'm guessing his Mum isn't a registered UKARA member or a member of a living history society or theatrical company. Thirdly, and this one I'm not so sure on, the buyer claims he could see 'Blue' in the magwell leading him to believe the gun has been re-sprayed. As I say I'm not 100% sure on this but isn't the re-spraying of a 2 tone gun illegal???? Even more worrying a so called member of the 'Law' posted a response giving advice on how to resolve the issue, never picing him up on the points I make above.
Guys and gals we are involved in a hobby that many would see as strange and does come under the scrutiny of the Powers That Be. People running around with realistic firearms is seen by many as a strange way to spend your weekends and very few would loose any sleep if the sale of airsoft guns was banned altogether. As an SS re-enactor I know the scrutiny the hobby comes under, Panorama programes such as John Sweneeys 'Weekend Nazis' doesn't help, but it is because of this we must adhere to the letter of the law which allows us to continue to participate in our much loved hobbies.
If people are going to bend these laws and try to get round them then it could come as no surprise to any of us if the authorities clamp down even harder. This is a public forum, once a user has registered they are free to read any topics posted. It us up to those involved in the hobby to make sure the letter of the law is upheld and to show the powers that be that we can still enjoy our chosen hobby in a responsible way.
Sorry if i sound like I'm jumping up on my soap. If any of the points I have made are incorrect I appologise but it would be a shame for people if you coudn't do what you enjoying doing so much".
Well, I suppose posting here just propagates the distribution of alarm! This sort of thing has been very widely discussed on forums before and after the VCRA came into being in the airsoft world, which you are probably unaware of. Really, this belongs in the forum in question, not this, which has a clear and rigorously enforced policy with regard to RIFs. This should be brought to the attention of those that run the forum (and not by a post either!) and allow them to deal with it as they see fit.
But specific points arising:
It isn't illegal for an over 18 to buy an IF for a minor as a gift. (Or indeed a RIF if the over 18 has exception). Just look at all the kids walking around with two-tones (IF) at War & Peace - all legally bought.
It is illegal for anyone without an exemption of spray a two-tone to look like a RIF (believed to be classified as 'manufacturing).
It is a bit dangerous to make assumptions based on scant forum posts (who knows if the parents had exemption? If they did then the deal was perfectly legal.)
Sadly, there is no surprise that has happened on that particular forum - it is well known for such editing. This particular issue has cropped up a few times on there and is either moderated to hell, or simply deleted, very quickly.
When we were a Kingdom it was run by a King
When we were an Empire it was run by an Empress
Now we're a country we're run by a..........
But specific points arising:
It isn't illegal for an over 18 to buy an IF for a minor as a gift. (Or indeed a RIF if the over 18 has exception). Just look at all the kids walking around with two-tones (IF) at War & Peace - all legally bought.
It is illegal for anyone without an exemption of spray a two-tone to look like a RIF (believed to be classified as 'manufacturing).It is a bit dangerous to make assumptions based on scant forum posts (who knows if the parents had exemption? If they did then the deal was perfectly legal.)
By deleting the post it does not give any of those involved a chance to respond to my initial concerns. The assumptions I had made were based on the responses posted in the original thread.
I am not being alarmist, and as you will note I did state I was not clear on certain points of law. I was not aware it was OK for someone over 18 to buy a IF for someone. My concern was the lad had bought what he thought was a TM MP5, not a 2 tone. No where in the post does he say his Mum has exemption. I was also not aware it was legal for someone with exemption to re-spray a 2 tone (why would you buy a 2 tone if you could buy a RIF)
I raised this on here because I know guys involved with WWII airsoft are also involved in genral airsofting.
The latset from the admin of said site is it was removed as it would casue 'arguments' Fook me if this isn't the kind of topic that does need agruing over what does. it ceratinly seems more relevant than who makes the best Dot pattern
Well, as I said - all this has been discussed a thousand times already. Based on incomplete information given in a forum post I can't really see it's for us to get involved - surely it's up to the forum management, poster and the police? I bet I see 50 cases of breaking the law a day just in general terms, never mind IF/RIF purchases. It happens!
Attempting to post on the forum ain't the way - contact the admins and get it dealt with properly if you have legal concerns.
CM my initial post wasn't because i had legal concerns. It was the way in which other forum members dealt with the matter. No one picked up on the points I did. I know full well that this site has a very strict policy on RIFs and the sale of them. When ever I sell them I am very strict on the details people give me and if there is any doubt the sale doesn't go ahead.
My worry was no one seemed bothered and if no one seems concerned and this is the kind of thing that goes on it could lead to problems. Seeing the law being broken everyday if you mean things like speeding drivers will not have an impact on the hobby the same way illegal selling will.
Again my whole point was not about the leaglity, it was simply to point out that on this forum and others I would have expected fellow members to come down hard on the legal points rasied as it could put thier choosen hobby in a difficult spot.
Understood - but your concern was illegality on another forum. This must be brought up with administrators, not posting on the forum - which will indeed lead to inflamed postings as chaps are not in possession of all the facts.
Everyone IS fully aware of the implications and forum admins are the only people in a position to deal with it.
I understand your concerns over the attitudes of users on another forum. The best place to address that is with the operators and users of that forum. While we can agree and tut tut about how terrible the world is there is in reality nothing we can do about the events on that forum. We can only act to try to comply with the law in areas that are under our control.
Sorry guys if I seemed to be having rant. I'm not looking at getting anyone invovled. What p***ed me off the most was my entire thread was deleted with the only explanation that it would 'cause arguments' This was by the admin of the site
I spent a hell of a lot of time on forums, probably too much time (like right now when I sould be working) The great thing about them is people can give thier opinions and others can comment. What chance have you got if you raise a concern and the admin deletes it incase it rocks the boat.
No apology is necessary!
In fairness, I might have done the same as ZeroOne myself. I haven't looked but presumably Zero One have a written sales & posting policy on their forum? We have, and if anyone had any concerns about a poster then I'd expect a quick PM to a moderator or admin so the issue can be dealt with. There is no point in going on about the perceived calamity that will arise if the law is broken. All that does is draw attention to a problem that may very well not be a problem at all! The VCRA and its consequences have been so well covered that there is little to be gained by regurgitating over again. On this forum we have dealt with transgressors severely in the past but most forum users will be blissfully unaware, just as it should be.
Just wanted to answer a question that is embedded in one of the posts above.
(why would you buy a 2 tone if you could buy a RIF)
Because you bought the two-tone before you got the exemption?
Oooh, well spotted that man. 
You see, this only backs up my thought that the thread should have been left. From the responses so far I have been made aware of several facts the I wasn't previoulsy aware of. I thought Ihad a slight understanding of the law and the VCR bill but this simply adds to my knowledge.
Surely its better to risk an argument but increase peoples understanding of the hobby they are involved with.
Lets be honest that forum has been dodgy for a long, long time... not least the Mods are *generally* poor choices, indeed before it got wiped you could find some very... well colourful stuff regarding a certain retailer by them...
I should not have been deleted, and I find it deeply troubling that they continually ignore the activities on the site unlike others that promise quick, strong action. It doesnt help its not independant at all...
I stopped posting on that forum quite some time ago because of the prevailing attitudes of not just the mods but the players (who seem to be one step away from a paintball approach to life) that post on there, in the main regulars at Ground Zero. I know it is a retailers own forum but the removal of and mention of any other airsoft related websites irked me greatly and the final straw was after my one and only day at GZ. I made a few observations about what I thought did and (in the main) didn't work, ie the unidentifiable player marshalls, the team colours being camo material strips so you couldn't see them and the rolling all day scenario that you couldn't follow without a PMR radio. I was flamed to within an inch of my life for making such observations so I thought "You lot can poke it!" and departed those shores.
-Marc-
4th Wilts LHG
WW2 armoury: WA M1911A1 SCW, TM M1A1 TSMG, AGM STEN Mk2, AGM MP40, S&S M1 Garand.
As with all other forums, some people like it, others don't.
Please don't turn this into a bitching thread about GZ forum. If you don't like it, don't use it.
As has been mentioned before, this forum isn't the place to raise concerns about the management of another forum. Concerns are duly noted, but action cannot and will not be taken.
