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(@wladek)
Famed Member

The German forces for the purposes of the game are -

1st Fallschirmjaeger Division
5th Gebirgsjaeger Division
44th Infantry Division

Obviously it would be nice to have the German forces as FJ entirely, but times are hard for folk and reality is important. the 5th GJ and 44th Infantry will make up a composite Heer force alongside the FJ. At the time that the Polish 2nd Corps attacked the 5th GJ were just finishing replacing the 44th Infantry on their positions to the NE of Monte Cassino when they came under attack. As asking people to be Gebirgsjaeger is just as awkward as asking them to portray FJ (if they do not have the kit) the heer force will be composed of both 44th Inf and 5th GJ, as for the sake of our scenario they became mixed in the confusion and with typical German flexibility addapted to the situation.

German Kit

The German forces have been occupying the Gustav line for a long time under fire and 'hotch potch' is the order of the day. Mixing temperate (wools) with tropical gear will create that Italian look, and for those who have either one or the other then that is perfectly acceptable. Also on the Gustav line there is many a tale of kit swapping, snaffeling and the usual that comes with being in a bad situation with GJ and FJ mixing available regular kit with their own.

Things to avoid

In speeking to some of the German players, with their excelent knowedge on the subject, there are some things to avoid when it comes to creating the look for this battle.

SS Camo - those distinctive SS camo items, there were no SS troops in this battle so avoid this please.
Jackboots - Ankle boots with anklets- or rolled socks for the GJ - are more correct for the theater, apart from officer and such.
Late war FJ smock - I believe this is called 'sumpf' and was not really around yet.

The sheer variation in German kit is something which I am trying my best to learn, but if I was to list what I do know hear I would still probably miss the question that someone wanted answering - and I would drastically increase the chance of making an arse of myself. So please feel free to ask what you will, and I will find out what I can for you.

The final word I have is that having players who really want to get into the game, and the spirit of the game, is far more important to me than having 100% accurate gucci kit. There will be people who can lend items and I am sure that we can accomodate you. Thanks guys, and i appologise for the time it took to get these basics up.

Quote
Topic starter Posted : 28/10/2009 11:39 pm




Von Straffham
(@von-straffham)
Estimable Member

Looking forward to this game Wladek! Probably go with the infantry look but even here the choice of uniform would be quite wide by the look of it - I take it the late war "Marsh pattern" camo as issued to infantry would be acceptable (as opposed to the SS camo)?



The first casualty of war is innocence.
The first casualty of airsoft is your wallet!

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Posted : 13/11/2009 7:56 pm




(@wladek)
Famed Member

Good man, keep up the looking forward. :good:

Now 'marsh pattern' I believe is the 'Sumpfmuster 43'? Issued in 42/43? As opposed to the 'Sumpfmuster 44' which was issued later?

From everything I can gather the '43 was widely issued and used in Italy so that would be quite fine, though the '44 was not around.

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Topic starter Posted : 16/11/2009 4:27 pm




Poacher
(@poacher)
Noble Member

From everything I can gather the '43 was widely issued and used in Italy so that would be quite fine, though the '44 was not around.

I'd venture few can tell the '43 from the '44 anyway. :?
I would suggest staying clear of camo [apart from zeltbahn] for heer and gebirgs. It was not 'widely' issued at all.
sumpf=marsh, equally applied to both variants.

aka Stigroadie

AFRA
better by design

"Truth is a shining goddess, always veiled, always distant, never wholly approachable, but worthy of all the devotion of which the human spirit is capable. "

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Posted : 29/11/2009 12:54 pm




Von Straffham
(@von-straffham)
Estimable Member

Ah that clears that clears that up then - the Sumpfmuster smock I have is 44 pattern, according to the invoice which I kept, blown if I can see a difference with the 43 though! But anyway I'll have a feldgrau heer tunic by then so probably just wear that. :lol:



The first casualty of war is innocence.
The first casualty of airsoft is your wallet!

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Posted : 04/12/2009 5:03 pm




(@anonymous)
Illustrious Member

sup!
I won't come to his event (I will be in Finland until June), but let me show you my 5th gebirgs uniform on italian front, to give you an idea!

I hope it will help you

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Posted : 11/12/2009 12:16 pm




(@wladek)
Famed Member

Thanks, that looks good. :good:

Shame you're in Finland, but I'll forgive you. :wink:

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Topic starter Posted : 11/12/2009 3:47 pm




marsha
(@marsha)
Noble Member

may signup for this pm sent





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Posted : 10/01/2010 8:06 pm




Poacher
(@poacher)
Noble Member

let me show you my 5th gebirgs uniform on italian front

This is not a dig but a genuine question as I dont know the answer. Is the white waffenfarbe correct for gebirgs and the tropical uniform?
It has always been my understanding that gebirgs wore green waffenfarbe and that white was a very rare colour to be found on a tropical uniform, certainly in Africa. Italy may be different of course.
Can anyone shed more light?

aka Stigroadie

AFRA
better by design

"Truth is a shining goddess, always veiled, always distant, never wholly approachable, but worthy of all the devotion of which the human spirit is capable. "

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Posted : 10/01/2010 9:30 pm




(@anonymous)
Illustrious Member

this is a very good question ;)

actually, you can find both, and each case has a proper signification

- white: some GJs, like in every weapons, was moved to the afrikakorps as regular infantry soldiers. That's why they were wearing the white waffenfarbe, but they were allowed to keep their edelweiss on the tunic and feldmutze. You can find this not only in DAK, but in Normandy aswell (more scarce). But they were no longer concidered as GJ troops.

- green: you can have those grass green waffenfarbe and a DAK tunic, because GJ regiments were enrolled in DAK (mostly from 5th GJ div). If you go this way, you should get all the regular GJ stuff (mountain shoes, bergmutze, backpack, no Y straps...)

The case of Italy is specific and you can find both of those.
Usually, it would be better to wear a helmet if you go white waffenfarbe, and all the classic infantry stuff.
So you are right, I should have grass green waffenfarbe with this uniform because of the bergmutze and the light pack, that are typically GJ.
The point is that dak olive shoulder tabs in grass green are hard to find ;)

But I don't know if this is very important for this event.

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Posted : 11/01/2010 12:47 pm




Poacher
(@poacher)
Noble Member

I do know that continental shoulder boards [wool in green or field grey] were quite common in Afrika, that might be the best route.
I still think that white was rare for Afrika. Green of the light divisions and grenadier was more common.
Gebirgs in Afrika were regt. 756 and one company in sonderverband 228. I cant find anything that says they came from 5th div?

aka Stigroadie

AFRA
better by design

"Truth is a shining goddess, always veiled, always distant, never wholly approachable, but worthy of all the devotion of which the human spirit is capable. "

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Posted : 11/01/2010 6:30 pm




(@anonymous)
Illustrious Member

i was meaning Cassino sorry!

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Posted : 12/01/2010 1:03 am




(@wladek)
Famed Member

So, if I may ask a simple question, is that a D.A.K. uniform (tunic and trousers) in the picture?

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Topic starter Posted : 12/01/2010 11:40 am




JD7
 JD7
(@jd7)
Illustrious Member

simple answer - yes

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Posted : 12/01/2010 12:03 pm




(@wladek)
Famed Member

thought so, ta. :D

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Topic starter Posted : 12/01/2010 12:05 pm




marsha
(@marsha)
Noble Member

what collar tabs are used for Dak?





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Posted : 06/03/2010 7:50 am




Steiner
(@steiner_1609088194)
Illustrious Member

Marsha, DAK collar tabs are usually orange on a tan background.

The tropical uniform was also worn by other troops (particularly in Italy), who would have put their own unit's insignia on. My gut feeling on this would be that it would be acceptable for DAK to have generic BeVo Litzen - i.e. green on tan background - which would then be totally correct for any other unit wearing tropical kit. This is actually dark green, not black.


You've got nothing to ein, zwei, drei, vier

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Posted : 06/03/2010 10:58 am




marsha
(@marsha)
Noble Member

thanks for that :good:





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Posted : 06/03/2010 11:12 am




Steiner
(@steiner_1609088194)
Illustrious Member

Certainly wool s/boards as found on Feldgrau tunics would be totally acceptable for DAK.


You've got nothing to ein, zwei, drei, vier

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Posted : 06/03/2010 11:15 am




Poacher
(@poacher)
Noble Member

Are you sure about continental litzen for DAK? Not seen that before. Possible for other tropical use but for DAK only seen the tropical litzen.
Wool shoulder boards certainly, the shortage of cotton boards for DAK is famous.

aka Stigroadie

AFRA
better by design

"Truth is a shining goddess, always veiled, always distant, never wholly approachable, but worthy of all the devotion of which the human spirit is capable. "

ReplyQuote
Posted : 06/03/2010 12:34 pm




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