New Rules for St Lo. BAR and Headgear

Hi, what support guns have us Gerries got?

With the BAR rules, we are going to be using them as a test period, and see how it goes, but I think the point is, the BAR was able to immediately return fire to a certain degree, just not in prolonged bursts, which hopefully the new rules do cover accurately.

Ok, fine by me. My thoughts were just that if the BAR gets the advantage over other support weapons (ie fired un-deployed) it just needs a disadvatage to offset it (ie less ammo) so it reflects the real situation as best as possible. Long term I would personally like to try allowing all (non heavy) MGs to be fire undeployed but in short bursts only like you suggest for the BARs.

Hi, what support guns have us Gerries got?

Well I think the FJ will have 2 MG42s. As for you SS I don't know.

I'm not sure it should apply to MMGs... Just LMGs... i.e. Bren and BAR. The MG42 is too heavy isn't it, more like the .30 cal?

I dont think the BAR classed as an LMG, it was an automatic rifle

The MG42 is too heavy isn't it, more like the .30 cal?

The Mg 34& 42 GPMGs so can forfill either role. It is possible to use them from the shoulder or hip, I've seen it done but as I said before not normally recommended, especially the 42 with its ROF. Although the 34 can be fired reasonably accurately due to having the option of semi-auto. The weight would put you off doing it unless absolutely necessary however.

So a 34 could arguably have the rule, but maybe not the 42.

I believe 2 MG42's

I also think it is only fair and authentic if we are allowed to use the MG's in Sturmfeuer mode firing from the hip, again providing it is only short bursts. The same weight issues Webby descibed with firing the BAR from the hip also apply to the 42's and then some. Never the less it can and was done, thats what the 50rd assault drums were for!

Excuse me for sticking my oar in here - how about for the BAR: full auto when deployed, semi auto when not deployed ?

I didn't think it had a switch... hence why the short bursts.

There was official wermarcht doctrine for firing the 34/42 from the hip. demonstrated here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vp0FbdrsIGM

Oh and the mg34 weighed slightly more that the mg42!

this may confuse the issue further, but i believe the BAR is online with the MP44, i.e. its an assualt rifle, completely diffent to a support weapon/crew served weapon.

Hi,

Looks like this debate will run.... I think the "firing from the hip" is a bit of a red herring as I remember picture in Flying Guts Picture Library of some Scottish Commando firing two brens.....

Back to reality, firing prone is a massive disadvantage, but I think it is acceptable if there is plenty of ammo to compensate. So how about the MG that is firing on the move has much less ammo (50 real * 3 for airsoft gets 150, close to the 190 suggested but BAR were 20 so that is only 60 airsoft and Trommels were 75? *3 for airsoft is 225 - let MG42 carry 3 times the BAR amount whatever is decided?) until the ammo mules catch up and replen?

I think that what constitutes a "short burst" will be more of an issue, depending on which end of the gun you are.

hmmm we could knock it down to 190 in the gun, 190 on the gunner, 190 on the assistant... what do you reckon?

I do think that if the BAR is to be able to be used from the hip or as an assault rifle, then it should have an ammo disadvantage to the belt feeding MGs etc. though what those numbers should be ?

well we can try it in the first part of a game, if it works fine, if not revert back to old spec. but i dont think any support weapons should be fired from the hip/shoulder. deploying them works and isnt controversial in any way. we really dont want the mg 42 to become the ww2 " mini" do we ?

MG34 AND MG42 were fired from the hip in "assualt mode", at the point of being that close to the enemy that the massive recoil didn't matter. Ideal for sweeping a bunker or trench.

That's it though... the BAR isn't a support weapon hence why we needed to look at it differently.

It's a gun created for an outmoded miltary doctrine. Not ideal at what it should do, but still used.

I'm happy to reduce the ammo limit down as suggested, but do think it should be able to break the no prone rule. It always was intended to be used on the hoof, as far as I can see.

Nige has a point. I suppose it is also about portraying the 'filmic' approach to the battles. We all like the deployed MG feel, but It would be nice to see how you can create the difference between the German squad, which revolved around the Mg, and the US one, which had much more distributed fire-power. as yith said, it is not really a support weapon.

I suppose one problem is, I don't know how good this BAR is?

I know webby's keeps breaking...