ACM MP44

I know they were reasonbly powerful as them formed the bsis for the AK47

No, they didn't. The ONLY vague similarity between the design of the AK47 and the Stg44 is the curvy magazine, which was around before the Stg44 anyway. The AK47 owes most of its design to the PPSh41, the SVT-40 and believe it or not, the M1 Garand. It has nothing in common mechanically with the Sturmgewehr at all. If you want weapons that were developements of the Stg44, you need to look at the HK G3, HK33, MP5, the FN L1A1, and even the M16, plus a few more, which all have ideas taken from it. The AK47 just looks a bit like it

In other words, the advent of affordable MP44s (and Stens etc to come) is fantastic - lets take a positive view and embrace them. And with a bit of common sense games will be all the better for having the choice. The days of both sides almost entirely kitted out with TM Thompsons are over. Hoorah!

Hurrah for chomley! as everbringing us the voice of common sense.....

I know they were reasonbly powerful as them formed the bsis for the AK47

No, they didn't. The ONLY vague similarity between the design of the AK47 and the Stg44 is the curvy magazine, which was around before the Stg44 anyway. The AK47 owes most of its design to the PPSh41, the SVT-40 and believe it or not, the M1 Garand. It has nothing in common mechanically with the Sturmgewehr at all. If you want weapons that were developements of the Stg44, you need to look at the HK G3, HK33, MP5, the FN L1A1, and even the M16, plus a few more, which all have ideas taken from it. The AK47 just looks a bit like it

The STG was the first assault rifle unless I am wrong and the AK47 was designed in 1947 shortly after the war and it is an assault rifle because the Russians knew how good the STG had been and knew they needed something between the SMG and a MG that took a rifle cartridge like the STG or at least a Kurtz short rifle cartridge the fact that the mechanism is different in some ways doesn't matter so much they both have a gas return tube and a curved mag and are predominantly metal with a stub wooden stock.

Kalashnicov was just good at simplifying things and amalgamations of other guns.

So in a way all Assault rifles are derived from the STG44 in some way!

I know they were reasonbly powerful as them formed the bsis for the AK47

No, they didn't. The ONLY vague similarity between the design of the AK47 and the Stg44 is the curvy magazine, which was around before the Stg44 anyway. The AK47 owes most of its design to the PPSh41, the SVT-40 and believe it or not, the M1 Garand. It has nothing in common mechanically with the Sturmgewehr at all. If you want weapons that were developements of the Stg44, you need to look at the HK G3, HK33, MP5, the FN L1A1, and even the M16, plus a few more, which all have ideas taken from it. The AK47 just looks a bit like it

The STG was the first assault rifle unless I am wrong and the AK47 was designed in 1947 shortly after the war and it is an assault rifle because the Russians knew how good the STG had been and knew they needed something between the SMG and a MG that took a rifle cartridge like the STG or at least a Kurtz short rifle cartridge the fact that the mechanism is different in some ways doesn't matter so much they both have a gas return tube and a curved mag and are predominantly metal with a stub wooden stock.

Kalashnicov was just good at simplifying things and amalgamations of other guns.

So in a way all Assault rifles are derived from the STG44 in some way!

Nope. First assault rifle technically was the Cei-Rigotti of 1890. The Japanese and Finns had designs after that and even the Italian Moschetto Automatico Beretta 1938 with its well overpowered 9mmx19 ammunition came before the MP43 series. The AK47 had been on the drawing board for years and was based on the AVS-36 (prototyped in 1931), SVT-40 and other soviet designs. It has absolutely NOTHING in common with the Sturmgewehr, but people see the similarity in looks (which are tentative at best) and assume that one is a copy of the other. Get a real steel MP44 and an AK47, take them apart and it very quickly become obvious that they are completely different animals, which bear no relation to each other at all. The MP43 was actually inspired more by automatic Soviet weapons than the other way around

EDIT BY OLD UN

Fully apreciate the irritation this causes , ie "AK47 is a developement of MP44", however can we keep this on topic gents . We are talking about the ACM MP44 Toy airsoft Gun .
If anyone would like to write up a short history of the real MP44 , that would be appreciated and could bes tickied somewhere for future info I'm sure

The FIRST Assault rifle was actually ITALIAN Believe it or not! The Cie-Rigotti in - wait for it 1890!!!!

but as usual it's a convoluted and open to debate subject - The French lay claim to the Chauchat being the first assault rifle...

The first weapon to carry the title and indeed fill the role was indeed the MP43/Stg44 and surprisingly even though it was designed and manufactured by Haenel and Schmeisser no one ever calls it the Schmeisser - which would be more fitting.......

I've been plinking with mine some more and I'm more and more pleased with the out of the box performance - it IS pokey.... not chrono'ed it but no doubt about it - it's up there... the more I shoot it the more apparent that is.

It will be downgraded but I think that's a shame as if we concentrated on your WWII airsoft developing along the lines I keep seeing, realistic ranges could be used, well disciplined people trained to NOT overshoot and the battles would be indeed challenging. Our problem would lie with the legality of the energy output though I think........ that said - Small, closed games as a try out could be the way forwards to hugging the 400fps mark and making it nearer the mark...........

Doh!
There's me double posting over the guru that is Brynnypants!!!!!!
Anyway - as said - Stg44 first bangstick to carry the actual title of "Assault Rifle" and he's right - it has a different system to the AK. I've shot, stripped, cleaned and arsed about with both - They are different.
The AK being the loudest mofo I EVER did put rounds through!!!!!!!

well - short of the DSHKA and Mr Browning's revered .50cal!

Oh - and the RPG which does tend to go BANG a bit..............

Bloody noisy buggers them Ruskys!

Just read further back and I'm REALLY interested in the conversation about scale of issue etc.

The proliferation of automatics is making it more firepower heavy. Maybe just as you "theme" the games and Chommers and his crew write the scenarios to make the weekend flow - How about (as many of us own several airsoft weapons) timelining the games so that Germans are armed primarily with K98s (only squad leaders with MP40s) and a proper team of 1 MG gunner (when the MGs arrive) supported by a No2 with K98 and a No3 also K98 equipped.... Early war standards......
Then let's go midwar with MG42s and the No2 having an MP40, You could call for "assault squads" of 6-8 armed with 9mm MPis and used as the feurwehr............
Late war sees Volksgrenadieren armed with STg44s and a truly formidable force - But let's balance it out with the scenario - No Axis Airpower and the Allies get disproportionate Artillery/Air Support to suppress said Sturmy toting bandits!!!!!

Look to the positive gents - (sorry for taking it off topic but it seems appropriate) just as firepower developed during WWII - you are seeing it happen here - counter it "historically" and make your games just better and better!

I'm aching to get some time in with the CiA posse this season - If only I find time between work, AFRA and mainstream re-enacty things.......

thats a good idea, but its a question of money. enfield rifles are now over 500 quid a time. my cyma tommy gun was 100 quid with 3 mags and a battery second hand. the manufactures make german stuff , but not much allied. you will get lads in brit line infantry with thompson M1a1 american spec, and mp40;s simply because there is no cheap and readily available allied alternative. uto about 1942 the british had the SMLE, the only one i have ever seen was made by DM. doug is makinng some, but the price will still be restrictive. put all this against a china soft tommy or mp 40 at about 140 quid. no contest. you will get people playing the dunkirque game with late war spec thompsons. next we will get a glut of stens. still no readilly available enfields or brens tho.

It's the balance of firepower in WW2 Airsoft that I find rather interesting. Go to the average Sunday skirmish, and it is quite literally an arms race. I've been guilty of it - Snyper will attest to the sheer insanity of my old V-Match M16. 5000 round box mag, 350fps and 1700 RPM. But did it make me a better player? Nope. It made me a lazy one.

Pre MP44, the firepower of each side in WW2 Airsoft had its pro's and cons. Lets take Op Husky and the Battle for Bryansk Forest as examples. At long range, the K98's really do put the balance of power in favour of the Germans. When that range is reduced, the Thompsons come into their own. What this should force the Germans to do is to keep the enemy at long range, then charge into action to a range where the MP40's will do the job. Conversely, its in the Allies interests to get "up close and personal" with the Thompsons as soon as possible.

It's another facet to the activity - how do you make the best use of what you've got?

Now, how does the MP44 change things? Good question, and one I hope to be able to answer with a degree of certainty after seeing them in action en-masse for the first time....

**edit**

Interesting points there PD. Op Aerial, we're hoping that as many of the German side as possible turn up with K98's - and that the Brit's turn up with their running shoes on....

thats a good idea, but its a question of money. enfield rifles are now over 500 quid a time.

Actually they are not anylonger As the owner of MGW and ISA I would like to say that I offer a Lee-Enfield No.4 MKI Rifle for $450 or only £310.

A pic of a happy customer from Norway armed with an MGW and ISA Enfield.

Each rifle is hand crafted by your truely and to keep the price as low as I can I hand build almost everything on the gun. It shoots at 470fps with .20 bbs and has a 30rnd magazine.

I try to build very high quality and durable weapons while keeping the price as low as I can becuase there are simply far too many very expensive airsoft guns on the market.

MGW and ISA

TommyGunner

trust me mate, when the british customs and excise get hold of it, the tax on it will take it to the 500 quid mark.i am not 00% sure but i believe in the US you pay about a half for the same AEG's from china as we do here. the chinese know this too. the world doesnt call the UK treasure island for nothing. they know we pay more for stuff than anyone else.

ACM is just a nickname matey.

All Chinese Made

edit*

Sadly, Nige is right. It might be 310 GBP in the US, but add 40 for carriage (at the cheapest rate I can get a rifle shipped from the US for), then Tax and Duty on top, then the inevitable handling fee and you're talking around £440

For some reason I have found that I have everything except a T8 driver in my tool boxes so I couldn't split the box and change out the spring this weekend - so I plied my thoughts to the cosmetics.

The stock stripped and stained fine so having taken off the ironwork I ground off all the edges as they looked a bit sharply stamped compared to the more robust real steel and re-attached them with round headed slotted screws - the Phillips ones looked SO wrong.

I had wondered about blueing the metalwork but ruled that out on the grounds that I wasn't sure of the composition of the castings and therefore if aluminium 'blueing' would work. And in any case the fore grip is steel and the gas tube is copper. While there are treatments for these I thought three lots would be undue expense and probably would look very different.

Flat black paint just won't do - so, blued or phosphated? I tested out a very dark blue metallic car paint and the result looked a bit like a kids bicycle frame so I went for a dark grey metallic paint instead. Looking at it now it's too dark and metallic paint isn't a good idea - Parkerized is quite a flat mid-grey. I'll try and find something better tomorrow when I'm out buying a T8 driver!

Been the tiniest bit busy today but found time to start on beautifying my MP44.
-- attachment is not available --
Had a little tickle at the stock - Scraped the gunk off with a piece of glass, sanded it and then applied Javanese Teak wood stain followed by pine coloured wax. Topped it off with a polish with a soft cloth. 90 mins max including cleaning up
-- attachment is not available --
Then the piece de la resistance - Took a piece of my collection and tried it for size - Yep! it fits! So will be building into this a functioning silencer!!!!!!
-- attachment is not available --

drool kameraden drool!!!!!!

PS - yes - the K98 grenade launcher was made to fit.............. and used! (hmmmm maybe I can adapt a madbull or similar......)

I know they were reasonbly powerful as them formed the bsis for the AK47

No, they didn't. The ONLY vague similarity between the design of the AK47 and the Stg44 is the curvy magazine, which was around before the Stg44 anyway. The AK47 owes most of its design to the PPSh41, the SVT-40 and believe it or not, the M1 Garand. It has nothing in common mechanically with the Sturmgewehr at all. If you want weapons that were developements of the Stg44, you need to look at the HK G3, HK33, MP5, the FN L1A1, and even the M16, plus a few more, which all have ideas taken from it. The AK47 just looks a bit like it

Ok, thanks for that I mean't conceptually - higher power full auto for short to medium range (300m) but not a full power rifle round.

Been the tiniest bit busy today but found time to start on beautifying my MP44.
-- attachment is not available --
Had a little tickle at the stock - Scraped the gunk off with a piece of glass, sanded it and then applied Javanese Teak wood stain followed by pine coloured wax. Topped it off with a polish with a soft cloth. 90 mins max including cleaning up
-- attachment is not available --
Then the piece de la resistance - Took a piece of my collection and tried it for size - Yep! it fits! So will be building into this a functioning silencer!!!!!!
-- attachment is not available --

drool kameraden drool!!!!!!

PS - yes - the K98 grenade launcher was made to fit.............. and used! (hmmmm maybe I can adapt a madbull or similar......)

Nice one Paul. The work on the stock has made a world of difference.

[Ok, thanks for that I mean't conceptually - higher power full auto for short to medium range (300m) but not a full power rifle round.

Yes me too and I stick with it

I have a Cetme and know the mechanism is diferent but that doesnt matter it is concept.

Also Hugo Schmeisser the designer behind the MP-44 was working in the same factory where Kalshinokov was perfecting the AK-47 and he stayed there from 1946 to 1949, the very year that the AK47 went into service!
There is much said that he helped out with aspects of the design!

1. AK47 looks like the MP44.
This is true, but as often said form follows function and the use of the gas operating system and shape of both the 8mm kurz and 7.62M43 round necessates the curved magazine. What is new in the MP44 is the free standing pistol grip, no other rifle of the time has this feature, which greatly simplified gunnery training and snap shot accurcy. The AK-47 was the first Soviet rifle to have a free standing pistol grip. Yes there was the PPS43 but that is an SMG!

2. Operation of AK-47 is completely different.
I have heard some poeple claim that the MP44 was recoil operated. This is false. Both rifles are gas operated and fire from a closed bolt. Even the design of the gas system is identical. Where they differ is in how they lock the bolt. The AK-47 uses a rotating bolt like the m1 Garand and the MP44 uses a wedge lock like the SVT-40.

The trigger group is also different but not completely. They both have a claw hammer and the use of coiled wire springs is completly new in a Soviet design (as used in the G43 and MP-44). Personally I would not be surprised if the AK's trigger group is a simplified version of the MP-44's. But that is conjecture, I do know that the fire selector is a copy of a previous design. It is also interesting to note that the very first Assault rifle trials in the USSR was with a open bolt design.

Another point of simularity is that both designs are made from pressed steel with only minimal stampings. In the case of the AK-47 this was quickly dropped as industrial manufacturing techniques were not yet up to the standard required. The machined receiver in the AK47 (the part where the bolt locks) is very similar in design to the one in the MP44. Again the idea of having a small machined receiver housed in a sheet steel body is a concept unique to the MP44 (at the time).

However there is enough similarity to the MP-44 coupled to the fact that Schmeisser himself worked on it, to say that the MP-44 is a close ancestor to the AK47 (like the StG45 is the ancestor to the CETME & G3

Anyway this has gone on too far as Oldun says lets drop it now!

CW I can recommend Hurricane Grey on the metal it looks quite good up close and it isn't metallic if you get the right one!
I will look the paint code up later.

thats a shame i was enjoying the discussion......

thats a shame i was enjoying the discussion......

So was I just move it to a new thread !
Keep this one for arsesoft as it will probs get tidied and stickied for reference for new owners .

gottalvya guy!