PDs Idea for a game becomes reality! Westwald/Ardennes Dec09

Will be there Saturday Yith...... Chat booked!

You do know you boys are more in the zone than the re-enactors don't you? The shite I am encountering "over there" is - well would be unbelievable but for re-enactors is par for the course - I know some will cros read these forums but a spade has to be called a shovel!

Chommers is being a rock of support via PM etc. His advice is being chewed over and followed. We recognise we have gone public early but this is more for re-enactors who need time to make adjustments and source RIFs. Sadly the malaise that afects the hobby has surfaced very rapidly. That said there is tremendous initial support.

On the subject of trigger time - I agree - Running around playing "cross country Cowboys and Indians" as someone aptly put it is rather juvenile really. Building an experience where your challenges are multiple is certainly a more mature option. Fieldcraft, a bit of inner courage, some toughness, a sense of humour and some skill with a gun is surely far more appealing?

Mind - I'm preaching to the converted - aren't I?

On the subject of firearms. Given the cost/time/scarcity of British weapons will the event still require Lee Enfields or Stens?

(yes I am considering it, my insanity knows no bounds)

I think that Wladek has a good point, and Jean Debuffet would certainly agree!:

“For me, insanity is super sanity. The normal is psychotic. Normal means lack of imagination, lack of creativity"

I think that Wladek has a good point, and Jean Debuffet would certainly agree!:

“For me, insanity is super sanity. The normal is psychotic. Normal means lack of imagination, lack of creativity"

... gently pulls bottle of Absinthe away from K's glassy-eyed reverie and replaces it with a copy of Razzle

Will be there Saturday Yith...... Chat booked!

Sadly the malaise that afects the hobby has surfaced very rapidly. That said there is tremendous initial support.

Odd really as I can think of a few that have at least the airsoft MP40 for display purposes ...... indeed I can think of a few homes those MP44s went to that weren't airsofters for "display" purposes, bit of a waste really (but I guess thats from an airsofters perception).

They're moaning about the extra expense of having to buy an airsoft gun for this event yet from an 'airsofter' perspective I think it may be just as expensive for some of us to attend as for them. They already have the necessary period gear they need to take part in this event, I personally don't. If I want to take part I'll need some more zelts and camping gear, plus more winter clothing would probably be a good idea too. Thats likely to be at least the price of an Mp40 yet nobody has complained on here so far.

What makes me laugh though is that they're moaning about having to buy a new gun when most of us moan if we don't have an excuse to buy one!

valid point, though che is chief armourer and gun buyer in this house, I just buy the uniforms and kit. We both moan at no excuse or indeed funds to buy either

I hadn't actually thought of it that way, but you're quite right, decent overcoat or padded one, accutrements for webbing if not already in possession (gas mask cannister, e-tool, etc) correct shirt (if not wearing correct as yet), extra zelts for tentage, wool blankets (cos I know we're in the few that use them) well I'd say you'd buy yourself a nice "weapon" for the same amount. Mind it won't work that way, its their hobby and you're all infiltrating it and I'll tell em so, cos I'm just a gurl and wtf do I know

Actually, I don't detect much hostility - in fact I'm amazed that the reenacting forums haven't lit up. Just a couple have said they won't be coming (fair do's), some sniffed at the word airsoft (meh, their loss!) and others are worried about costs (its a fair point too).

Bearing in mind that these are a minute number in the scheme of things I rather suspect most people are thinking 'Hmmm, sounds interesting, I'll wait to find out more, see who is going and whether I can afford it'. Of course they won't post as such, why would they (most people look, not post and in any case don't like putting heads above parapets).

If PD plays this cool, relys on the personal word of mouth and pressing the flesh at the network of shows and events coming up (rather than get airiated at a few forum tub thumpers) then people will listen. They want to listen, they are interested. Some people are looking for something fresh and new, others are looking for a bit of progression, others like what they have always done. I doubt whether its even worth trying to preach to the last category (until the next event when there is a bit more to sell on), so why bother!

I am interested in this but I am not sure I can get time off for the whole thing and would be a bit worried about the minimum kit requirement as I am a bit light in a few areas.

That said, If there was an option for a Heer "REMF" to do a bit of guard duty and there was a bit of flexibility on the kit (K98 wth G43 pouches, no gas mask tin, swedish waterbottle no cup etc.) and could do Sat morning to Suday early morning?

Oh you've not realised yet the great beast of all re-enactment yet CW. Ignore it and it will roll onto the floor, hide under the carpet and never be mentioned again. I could point to several posts about non battle events (sure there must be some on the battle side that have suffered the same treatment), infact I can think of one on one forum that does involve a lot of potential, hoping to see the site myself at some point for a reason, that the chap wanting to organise it has more or less been ignored. Are people not interested, are they waiting to hear more? who knows its the same old same old, they say no news is good news, in re-enactment its well nothing news, neither good nor bad cos they couldn't be arsed.

If we all sat here and said "I'm not playing in that location, I'm not playing if so and so is playing, I'm not playing unless I can wear that, I'm not playing etc etc etc we'd all be very short of events and games? Thankfully you chaps always get the numbers for games, that isn't always the case in even the private battle side of re-enactment. They all want someone "else" to organise it, but when 50 people want it on their terms, well you can see how sometimes it doesn't come to fruition. Then low and behold its cancelled and they still moan

All I am saying Helga is that a couple of people spouting off on a forum is neither here nor there. The vast bulk of them are out there at one show or another, doing it, not talking about doing it! In other words, its easy to be irritated by a few instead of concentrating on the many.

They all want someone "else" to organise it, but when 50 people want it on their terms, well you can see how sometimes it doesn't come to fruition. Then low and behold its cancelled and they still moan

I realise this - that's why PD has said he and the team are organising it, on their terms. Buy into or don't, either way - no moaning!

If I think about it, pretty much every hobby i've been involved in has had a substantial problem with people moaning about the lack of events (With me it was climbing trips, kayaking trips, LW backpacking trips, mountain biking - all a long time ago lol ) but when someone did organise something then you'd always get a small group of people who did nothing but moan. Or, even worse, they'd turn up and then spend the weekend moaning about it. It was the same people each time as well.

I learned that the way to do it is simply to state what you're doing - then get on with it. Constructive criticism is of course welcome, but if people are just going to slag something off then IMHO they can get f**ked.

Me, i'm looking forward to this event. Even if it has cost me 2 crates of Carslberg as a bribe, covering the New Year on-call rota as a trade-off & kissing the bosses arse just to be able to book the time off to do it.

if you get a break,and the weather isnt too gruesome it should be a cracker. but alas, not for me.did enough of this when i was a lad.my airsoft is for fun these days, not an endurance test but i will back this all the way. i have offered to be admin staff at jedburgh ,happy to do fetch and carry if it helps . if you need any help with this i am here.

one word of warning.....dont try and get people who are only going to spoil it for others, i have had this with climbing trips in the past .roping in some knobhead just to make the numbers up never works and usually leads to disaster.

best of luck.

Note I'm not moaning myself CW, merely expression my views from a re-enactor who views the forums and indeed talks to lots off (and those that aren't on) the forums, much as PD but obviously I'm not part of organising anything

In response to Kermit, I've had it with a local bike group, noone wanted to organise rideouts/meets and when you get fed up and do it yourself they'd moan. I'm sure some of them thought they needed to have their passport stamped to leave Yorkshire

H, whose one of those off doing the re-enacting thing this weekend

Thanks for the positive comments and support folks.
I've done trying to get folks onside - It really is a case of build it and they will come.
There is a lot of behind the scenes interest from people who do not feel the need to publicly broadcast either support or otherwise. So I've shut up and will let them get on with it.

To my delight I see Wullie has been supportive on Pozzi and has adopted a very mature attitude. His comments are welcome.

Scenario is being built NOW. (perhaps I'm a bit more laid back about it than you peeps are used to but it's cos I've had literally decades of organising this kind of stuff - I know ti will happen in the end - not QUITE to the script but we can hang the rags off it! )

Research is shaping up nicely and an operation that ended on 3 December is the basis - can't get much nearer than that.

Things will happen quickly now - Lots to do - lot of people to get to commit, Dink - you KNOW you are on the list - you choose what you do - I've stated somewhere else - Private battles are just that - if a Living Historian regardless of race or gender wants to experience front line - then so be it. Times (and opinions) are a changing. Compromises WILL be made - it has to be that way in order to get this thing started. I was at the home of a site operator this evening and he is so fired up by this - Seeing his apprehension first hand made me both a little guilty at the challenge I'm mounting and pleased that it is having effect.
People ARE buying in - I don't think this is exactly momentous but I do think it's a good move forwards. This crowd can see Living History and the other crowd can see airsoft. I know each has a lot to offer and I'm levelheaded enough to know it won't be for everyone - But once we've tried it we can re-evaluate and redesign and find a good range of inbetweens to keep up the interest of both groups, eventually blurring the lines so much that they don't exist.

Developments to come soon now -

Venue is at Tankersley of the M1 J36
Date is Friday 4 to Sunday 6 December
Ball park cost for combatants is £30.00, hot food and drinks included.
Firewood, Straw and other essentials will be provided.
Unsure as to whether to ask support people to contribute £10.00 per head to keep the event solvent but it's looking likely.
Vehicle owners will be assisted or where possible covered with transport costs
Those bringing large props and/or lots of equipment to form HQ areas will also be subsidised/assisted with costs.
Potentially we will collect a good sum of money - It will be put back into the event to provide a fantastic experience. If a small surplus is left, we will keep it in AFRA and re-invest in another event. This is a public statment in order to ensure transparency and honesty - It's how we do things in AFRA.
Vehicles in the pipeline so far include jeeps, kubelwagens, wheeled armour, halftracks and krads....... who knows what else will materialise.

Im in, I think that's an incredibly reasonably price. I was actually expecting closer to £50!

Yep, you can count me in for this too.

I'm in!

Ditto.

I'm a probable...